My guest this week is Richard Wilmore, the host and executive producer of the wildly successful daily talk and variety series Make Your Day Richer TV. From 2016 to 2022, he hosted the award-winning The Richard Wilmore Show. He also co-hosts the Wolf Media Fest podcast. Behind the scenes, Richard helps numerous podcasts and livestreams with production, editing, and talent booking needs through his company, Make Your Day Richer.
Richard talks with me about how he found his calling as a talk show host, why you should start where you are with what you have, the challenges of making work for hire and turning your art into a business, the importance (and difficulties) of listening to yourself, and a lot more.
Episode breakdown:
00:00 Introduction
04:09 Supportive parents let Richard explore.
09:06 Young Richard pretended to be a weatherperson, then talk show host.
13:11 Performing as himself felt natural, but nerves still linger.
17:16 Richard describes building colorful sets to energize his shows.
22:18 Created talk show sets in basements, bedrooms, and studios.
27:04 Richard and Nancy reflect on starting shows with minimal gear.
32:44 Burnout can happen even doing what you love most.
37:15 Turning creativity into business poses unexpected challenges for artists.
41:21 Listening to your gut is crucial but not always easy.
46:29 Self-doubt and outside opinions complicate creative decisions and direction.
51:49 Guests surprise Richard; reaching out directly often leads to yes.
Show Links: Richard Wilmore
Make Your Day Richer site
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Transcript: Richard Wilmore
Please note: This is an unedited transcript, provided as a courtesy, and reflects the actual conversation as closely as possible. Please forgive any typographical or grammatical errors.
Nancy Norbeck [00:00:06]:
Welcome to Follow Your Curiosity. Ordinary people, extraordinary creativity. Here’s how to get unstuck. I’m your host, creativity coach, Nancy Norbeck. Let’s go. My guest this week is Richard Wilmore, the host and executive producer of the wildly successful daily talk and variety series, Make Your Day Richer TV. From 2016 to 2022, he hosted the award winning The Richard Wilmore Show. He also cohosts the Wolf Media Fest podcast. Behind the scenes, Richard helps numerous podcasts and live streams with production, editing, and talent booking needs through his company, Make Your Day Richer.
Nancy Norbeck [00:00:46]:
Richard talks with me about how he found his calling as a talk show host, why you should start where you are with what you have, the challenges of making work for hire and turning your art into a business, the importance and difficulties of listening to yourself, and a lot more. Here’s my conversation with Richard Wilmore. Richard, welcome to Follow Your Curiosity.
Richard Wilmore [00:01:09]:
My gosh. Thank you for having me here in your closet. I love it.
Nancy Norbeck [00:01:15]:
Yes. It’s very it’s very exciting.
Richard Wilmore [00:01:17]:
In a closet. So that’s fun. It’s fun. You know?
Nancy Norbeck [00:01:20]:
I don’t know how how many people know that I record in my closet since I don’t Oh. Do video. But, no, it’s fine. It’s fine. But I do record in a closet because that’s what I have, and it works really well. And I love it. You know? I think there are videos out on on the web that I’ve made from this closet because, you know, if that’s what you have, there’s no reason not to start there. So
Richard Wilmore [00:01:43]:
Yeah. You know? It’s so true. Yeah. Yeah. I started without even microphones and lights. So that was an error. But that’s what I did.
Nancy Norbeck [00:01:54]:
Yeah. You start with what you have and that’s okay. It’s better than not starting at all.
Richard Wilmore [00:01:58]:
It’s so true.
Nancy Norbeck [00:02:00]:
So I wanna start you with the same question that I ask everybody else. Were you a creative kid or did you discover your creative side later on?
Richard Wilmore [00:02:09]:
I was definitely a creative kid, from the beginning. Like, I think I like, oh, my only memories are of me creating different worlds to kind of live in and escape to. So, always. I don’t know how much my parents loved that because my other brothers I have an older brother and a younger brother, very into sports, very into, like, the normal things. And I don’t know if they knew what to do with me, but I was lucky enough that they just let me do it and supported it. So I was always making up worlds. Yeah.
Nancy Norbeck [00:02:51]:
Yeah. That’s always the question, you know? Did did they think that was weird and try to tell you you shouldn’t do that? Or were they like, okay. This is interesting and different and let’s run with it. So I’m glad to hear that they supported it.
Richard Wilmore [00:03:03]:
Yeah. It was like a little bit of both. Like my dad, I don’t think really knew what to do with this kid who didn’t want anything to do with sports. Mhmm. And my dad’s my dad was the coach. My dad was all the things. And so suddenly he had this kid who just wanted to play teacher and and, store. And he was like, what do I do with this? And so he would make me do a season of each thing.
Richard Wilmore [00:03:24]:
Like, I had to do t ball for one season. I had to play basketball for one season. But if I didn’t like it, like, our agreement was that I didn’t have to continue doing it, but I had to try. And I hated him during that time while I was being forced to play, t ball. But, you know, I’m glad that I did it. I learned that I didn’t like it. So, yeah, I would never know.
Nancy Norbeck [00:03:49]:
I think it’s fair to say you need to try it, but if you don’t like it, you don’t have to keep doing it. I mean, that’s generally my approach with myself when I’m, you know, in a place where it’s like, Oh, I’ve never had quail before, but all right, I’ll try it. And if I hate it, I don’t have to eat it. You know? Have you had quail? I have.
Richard Wilmore [00:04:09]:
And?
Nancy Norbeck [00:04:10]:
I liked it. Okay. I, it’s funny. Cause I, I had forgotten that until I read something about it a couple of days ago and was like, oh, I forgot that I had quail at the I, I went to this big wine festival ten years ago, and that was one of the things that they had. So I was like, okay, I’ll try this. But, haven’t had it since. Don’t really remember what it was like at this point, but, you know, tried it. So Interesting.
Nancy Norbeck [00:04:40]:
Yeah. Yeah. But you know, I also get that perspective of, oh, man. My dad’s gonna make me try this thing. I don’t wanna have to do it. Why are you making me do this bad?
Richard Wilmore [00:04:51]:
Why? Mhmm.
Nancy Norbeck [00:04:53]:
You know?
Richard Wilmore [00:04:53]:
Yeah. Yeah. It was, I just wanted to stay home and hang out with my mom or, like I said, play a teacher. Like, my entire childhood mostly was me wanting I knew I wanted to be a teacher. Like, that’s what I thought I would always do, and then that never happened. But, that’s what I always thought I would do.
Nancy Norbeck [00:05:15]:
How was your mom with hanging out with her? Was that like, okay, cool. Or was she like, what are we gonna do with this kid? I need time to myself.
Richard Wilmore [00:05:26]:
Great question. I think in my version of it is that she loved having me around, and she wouldn’t want it any other way. No. Her and I get along really well. Like, we are I think I was the closest thing to a daughter she ever had. So she was like, well, perfect. I’ll this is great. And so we would shop together.
Richard Wilmore [00:05:46]:
We would clean together, and, we yeah, I mean, I couldn’t call my mom, and we can sit on the phone for, you know, hours without really saying anything. So it’s always been like that with her.
Nancy Norbeck [00:05:59]:
That’s pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. So you said that you thought you were gonna become a teacher and then you didn’t. What happened?
Richard Wilmore [00:06:08]:
What happened? Well, it started out with, I fell in love with a local, weather person, this woman that was on the local news where I grew up, I don’t know why I was, like, infatuated with her. Infatuated? Yes. That’s the word. And she was just so, like, she had big hair, and she was, like, looked so, like, fantastic to me. And I thought, well, that’s what I wanna do. Like, her voice was so like, I was just drawn to everything about her. And so I thought, well, maybe I should just I’m gonna be a newscaster. And so I quit my job as a teacher, as a 10 year old, and, started literally at 10:00 every night.
Richard Wilmore [00:06:57]:
I would go and sit at the edge of my bed and pretend to do the news for thirty minutes. And I would just talk to the wall and pretend I was doing the news. And I wanted to do that until I fell in love again with another fantastic woman on TV, Rosie O’Donnell. And that whole thing just sparked like, oh, that’s what it is. That’s what I wanna create and what I wanna give people. And Wow. I haven’t stopped since.
Nancy Norbeck [00:07:29]:
Wow. What did your parents think of you doing the news to an empty room every night?
Richard Wilmore [00:07:36]:
I I think, I don’t even know if they actually knew that I did that part.
Nancy Norbeck [00:07:43]:
Okay.
Richard Wilmore [00:07:44]:
They knew that I was like, once I went into, you know, talk show host at, you know, 11 years old, and I would hang I would get a I had a little piece of printer paper, and I wrote on air, and I put it on my door. And then they started to know because I would go in there, and I would full productions. I mean, I had the biggest celebrities coming on. I had the biggest musical acts. I had I had the lights, like, you know, the fun little, like, disco. I would go to Spencer Gifts and, like, buy all their cool lights. Like, I had a whole setup, and I would just sit there and talk to myself kind of like I do now. Not much has changed in forty years, but, I think still today, they’re like, we’re they don’t they get it, but they don’t get it.
Richard Wilmore [00:08:29]:
Like, I they watch the show, and they think it’s great, but they’re like, okay. Like, whatever. As long as you’re happy. I think that’s always been the motto with my parents. It’s always been, as long as you’re happy and you’re not getting in trouble, go for it.
Nancy Norbeck [00:08:44]:
So we’re happy. That’s probably, you know, the, the best possible scenario for most people. I mean, I can picture some parents going, what is wrong with our kid? He’s sitting in there. It’s 10:00. He should be in bed And it’s 10:00 and he’s talking to no one, making up stories. And, you know, do do we need to take him to see somebody?
Richard Wilmore [00:09:06]:
Yes. Well, and I did that too. But I mean, I was also that kid, like, I was in love with the Wizard of Oz. And so I had Wizard of Oz dolls. I had, like and so I was always I mean, for lack of a better I was always different. You know? Like, I was always different than my brothers or, like, I don’t think I was what they thought I was going to be. Although, when I came out, my mom started crying, and I said, why are you crying? And I was, like, 20. And she said, I’ve been waiting since you were three.
Richard Wilmore [00:09:36]:
So I guess they did kind of know who I was and, like, and they just embraced it. And so I was I was really lucky that they just let me be who I needed to be.
Nancy Norbeck [00:09:45]:
That’s fantastic. Mhmm. Yeah. I I I remember when I was teaching, there were a couple of kids who were like that. It was like, when when’s it gonna happen? Cause any day now, you know? Mhmm. And and then, you know, that was pretty much our reaction too. It’s like, we’ve we’ve been waiting.
Richard Wilmore [00:10:03]:
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And then I always think like, well, you think when you’re in the middle of that, that you’re so good at hiding it. Like, I thought I was gonna like, I thought I was gonna shock the world. And then it turns out everyone’s like, well, duh, you idiot. Like, hello. You, your room is covered in Rosie O’Donnell pictures and, you’re listening to Madonna.
Richard Wilmore [00:10:30]:
Like, what did you expect? I’m like, oh, okay. Well fine.
Nancy Norbeck [00:10:33]:
Yeah. Yeah. And yet it’s so sad that we have this situation where people feel like they have to hide it in the first place. Yeah. You know, like why, why can’t we just let people be who they are? Yeah. You know, I mean, that’s always seemed ridiculous to me. Like people are just people, you know, everybody’s just a person. Just let them be the person they are and move on with your life and let them move on with their life.
Nancy Norbeck [00:11:03]:
And as long as nobody’s hurting anybody, what’s the problem? At Yeah. It just mystifies me.
Richard Wilmore [00:11:11]:
Yeah. I think like like but Yeah. So 17 part series, everybody. Uh-huh. But I still kind of go through that, like, in when I’m doing my show. Like, I have to very, when I first started, I remember, like and even sometimes now, like, depending on the guest or who like, my perception of them, who I think is going to show up as a guest on my show, what I wanna talk about that day or how, you know, like, I don’t wanna offend anybody, but I also wanna be myself. And so I want to it’s kind of a dance. I don’t know.
Richard Wilmore [00:11:53]:
I still kind of go through that sometimes of like, but then I think, well, I mean, I’m wearing a flower shirt, so.
Nancy Norbeck [00:12:02]:
Right. I mean, I, I think, you know, having, having done several podcasts and including doing your show, I think there is always that, like, I wanna go be myself, but you have in the back of your head, you’re going, how is this coming across to other people? You know? Right. That that kind of thing. And so it’s, it’s interesting. Cause I haven’t actually sat down and really thought about this before and I, and maybe that’s because I do have my own show. So maybe it’s a little bit less because I’m used to doing something like this, but, but yeah, you, you are kind of like, even on a very low level, you know, especially if, if you bungle something that just came out or you said it in a way that isn’t really what you had in mind, but those are the words that came out and there’s that part of you going, boy, that came out backwards and I hope it made sense and, you know, whatever, because I don’t think there’s any taking it back and doing it again, you know? And and so you’re, you’re just kind of watching yourself try to be yourself, but you’re also sitting there going, yeah, what was that? So it’s it’s a weird mix.
Richard Wilmore [00:13:11]:
Yeah. Because it’s like a performance. It’s sort of a performance, but you’re also trying to really just be yourself and be in the moment and be authentic. I was a theater major in college, and I quickly realized, like, I’m not good at pretending to be someone else. No. But I’m fine with being my you know, just here. And then if I screw up, whatever. But, yeah, totally.
Richard Wilmore [00:13:31]:
Like, you wanna be in the moment with them, but you’re also there’s, like, something about it that you’re like, woah. Am I professional? Do I look okay? Am I presenting okay? You know, like, all that stuff. It’s interesting.
Nancy Norbeck [00:13:43]:
Yeah. Yeah. It is. So it’s I I don’t know. You know, there are it’s it’s interesting you talk about not being good being someone else. You know, there are people who are super good at shedding their own skin and taking on that other persona, and it’s easier for them to get up on stage. Like, David Bowie was like that. You know, if you made David Bowie get up on stage as himself, especially, I think, early in his career, if I’m correctly recalling, you know, it it would have been a radically different story, but get David Bowie to go on stage as Ziggy Stardust, completely different story.
Richard Wilmore [00:14:19]:
Completely.
Nancy Norbeck [00:14:20]:
You know? And and so there’s there’s that kind of of situation, and then there’s, you know, all I have to do is be me. But a lot of us are terrified of being me. And and for some of us, it’s easier in certain situations. Like, it’s not it’s not necessarily tough for me to come hop on Zoom and do a podcast as me, but to get up on a stage in front of people live is a different story. I’ve done it. I enjoy it. I’ve found ways to make it less absolutely terrifying, you know, with my heart pounding, like on those old cartoons, you know, out of your chest. But it, it takes some effort, you know, the old stage fright is a real, a real beast, but once you, once you get going, it’s a little easier.
Nancy Norbeck [00:15:16]:
I, at least for me to kind of like sink in and be like, okay. Okay. It’s all right. Nope. Nobody’s come after me. I think there aren’t any tomatoes in the audience and it’s going to be okay. But, but yeah, it’s a, it’s a weird thing.
Richard Wilmore [00:15:31]:
Yeah. I think I I mean, I get nervous before every show. I do it every, you know, Monday through Friday. And every day there’s like, am I prepared enough? Is every and, well, you’ve been on my show. You know, I’ve made it way too complicated for myself. I’ve got graphics and videos and all this stuff happening, and I’m pressing buttons and usually screwing something up. So but I love that. Like, I love that part of it, and I love the, like, kind of improv part of that too, where we’re just kind of going for it and seeing what happens.
Richard Wilmore [00:16:07]:
But it’s moving that from, like, fear to excitement. Like, that I have to I’m constantly working on of, like, okay. You’re not afraid to do this. You know how to do this. But there’s just that and then the same thing. Once I start, as soon as, you know, I introduce you, then I’m all, I’m good to go.
Nancy Norbeck [00:16:25]:
Yeah. Well, and I think some of that is also at that point, you can focus on the other person. Yeah. So, so you’re a little bit off the hook, right? Cause now it’s being the other person, which, which helps a whole lot too. So, and I, I want to, since you mentioned it, you know, since people who are listening, can’t see this, Richard has this fabulous set that is just, it’s it’s beautiful and multicolored, and it’s it’s like a a fair or a playground, and it’s it’s got, like, balloons and, you know, a is that like a little mini merry-go-round behind you kind of? There’s a Ferris wheel Yeah.
Richard Wilmore [00:17:10]:
And a roller coaster and some circus tents, and there’s all kinds of stuff. And it’s,
Nancy Norbeck [00:17:16]:
it’s just so cool. And, and it’s, it’s just bright and fun, which is perfect. It fits Richard and his show really well. And if you want to see it, you should check out his YouTube channel. Cause cause it’s on there. But, it it just it fits the whole the whole personality of of the show, and it fits Richard super well. And and I’m I’m enjoying watching it right now, but Richard looks relieved.
Richard Wilmore [00:17:43]:
Well, I’m like, hey, in case I suck, then you have something else to watch. That’s a it’s just a total distraction.
Nancy Norbeck [00:17:51]:
But it’s just so cool. I I just think that, you know, it’s it’s kind of a shame here that people can’t get actually see it. But, I just love the thought that that you’ve put into it to make it fun. And it just, it just fits really well. And I wanna talk about how you got to the point where you have a set like this. Like how did you actually get from doing, you know, your own Rosie O’Donnell in imitation in your house as a kid and majoring in theater to I’ve got this wild, colorful setup, and I do this show.
Richard Wilmore [00:18:27]:
Imitating Rosie O’Donnell in my house Yeah. Now at 40?
Nancy Norbeck [00:18:31]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Richard Wilmore [00:18:34]:
Well, I started I did my first show. So I did my first show in 02/2009, I think. And it was for Milwaukee Public Television. I had a friend who was in a TV production class, and so everybody had to do a show. And so he came to me and he was like, I have an idea for you. We could do your show. And so I got to do my show in front of a a studio audience. I was the first one at Milwaukee Public Television to have a live studio audience, and so they were all nervous about that.
Richard Wilmore [00:19:10]:
And, I did my show, and I ended up winning an award. And then they asked me to come back and do a a live version of it because they were like, well, you know what you’re doing. So let’s see what happens. And so we did a live version. And then, you know, I got sucked into, like, retail world, and I was I just was working. And in 02/2016, I had moved from Milwaukee to Maryland, and I converted my basement into, like, a TV studio. And so I studied like, I feel like I’ve been studying talk show hosting set like, I’ve been studying it for, you know, thirty years. And so I knew exactly what I wanted it to look like.
Richard Wilmore [00:19:55]:
I knew exactly what type of guests I wanted to have. I knew everything except for microphones and lighting. I knew nothing about those two things. And so I just converted my basement into I built a set and I had audience members and I would have bands come in. And that’s kind of how it evolved. And then I moved from Maryland to Texas and I ended up doing it at a a comedy club there for a while in front of an audience. I mean, I’ve done it everywhere from a basement to a bedroom to a comedy club. Any During the pandemic, I did it.
Richard Wilmore [00:20:35]:
I was living in a one bedroom apartment, and I did it in the corner of my bedroom. I set up a little studio in the corner. So, you know, have have, have a show. We’ll travel. I don’t know what the what the saying would be, but I can I can, do a pop up show anywhere that I need to? That’s really how it, like, started. It’s been in all different kind of forms. I moved into, like, an actual studio for a while, and that’s where this came from. Because this is actually it’s really tall, and it’s really wide.
Richard Wilmore [00:21:14]:
But I just I I don’t know. I just love the like, everybody’s face and vibe changes when they walk into the studio. Like, everybody you see their faces light up, and you see them calm down when they’re in here at the same time. It’s very interesting. Some people think I run a daycare, but, depending on the guests, it could kinda feel like that. But, yeah, I don’t know. I just, like, I love the way it feels. Mhmm.
Richard Wilmore [00:21:43]:
And all the color. When I was a kid, my mom let me take all the extra paint from our our house and paint my bedroom. And so it basically looked like this, and I just took rollers, and I just went all over the walls, like, floor to ceiling and created the same thing. And it’s just something the rest of my house is very plain and relaxing, so I could be overstimulated in here. But I also feel like for the vibe of the show, that’s what you need. You know? Like, you need to have it in your face kind of.
Nancy Norbeck [00:22:18]:
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I I can’t imagine anyone, you know, who isn’t the the next Ebenezer Scrooge walking into your set and frowning at it. I I mean, I can’t because it’s just so cheerful.
Richard Wilmore [00:22:32]:
Do you wanna know something funny, though? Is that I did have one guest who, said after that they really liked being on the show. I was a good host, whatever, but I should really take my side back to the drawing board because they did not like it. And they thought it was and I was like, oh, well, if your only complaint is that you didn’t like the side, I think we did a good job.
Nancy Norbeck [00:22:53]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, what what I also love about your your literal and and metaphorical journey is that it takes me right back to the fact that I’m sitting in my closet right now as we’re recording this. You know? Mhmm. Like, you can set it you you didn’t sit there and say, I’m gonna go get myself hired by a TV network. You said, I’m gonna do this because I wanna do it, and I’m gonna figure out how to make it work with what I have.
Richard Wilmore [00:23:22]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn’t even know how to edit. Like, I went and filmed my first episode, which was a band. So I went to the rehearsal space with an iPad and no microphone, like I said, and just, like, started talking to them. And I had an hour of footage on this iPad iPad. And I, like, I never put two and two together.
Richard Wilmore [00:23:40]:
I just knew I wanted to host a show. I didn’t want to edit a show. I didn’t wanna like, I didn’t wanna do any of that. And I got home, and I was like, oh, I have to do something with this. Like, I I don’t know why. I don’t know. Not enough coffee. I’m not sure what happened, but there was such a disconnect of, like, point a to point b.
Richard Wilmore [00:24:00]:
And so I just Googled, like, free editing software, and that’s how I started and taught myself how to do it and turn that into a business. People hire me now to do that and, you know, produce their podcast and edit their podcast. And I I there’s so many I’ve done thousands of shows at this point, and half of them, you shouldn’t even watch because they’re bad bad quality. But it was such I feel like it’s always I’ve I’m always learning, and that’s also what I love. Like, I’m always going to the edge of, like, what I think I can do creatively. And then when I am satisfied with that, I can push myself a little bit more and learn something else. And, it’s such a creative medium. Mhmm.
Richard Wilmore [00:24:46]:
I have so much fun. Yeah. Yeah.
Nancy Norbeck [00:24:48]:
Yeah. And and, you know, I’m sure it won’t surprise you to hear that what you just said describes a lot of my experience when I started this podcast. It was like, I don’t have the faintest idea how you put a podcast together. I will sit down and listen to one of the interview shows I like and say, okay. This is how it’s set up, and that’s how I’ll set up my show because I don’t know what I’m doing. So, like, reverse engineered somebody else’s show and said, this is this is how it all goes together. And then, you know, oh, a mic. Well, right now, I have a phone.
Nancy Norbeck [00:25:19]:
So I have a phone and I have an iPad and Mhmm. You know, that’s that’s what we’ll do. And got a mic for Christmas that year. Thanks, dad. And, you know, just kind of kind of roll with it. Like, okay, how do I use audacity? Okay. We’ll figure this out. And, and that’s, that’s it.
Nancy Norbeck [00:25:38]:
It’s like Google is great
Richard Wilmore [00:25:41]:
or was
Nancy Norbeck [00:25:42]:
once upon a time. Yeah.
Richard Wilmore [00:25:45]:
But Yes. YouTube now is where where all the kids are going. Yeah. I mean, I always think of everything as, like, a TV show. So I had studied. I feel like I could write a history book on the Rosie O’Donnell show. Like, I can tell you specifically set pieces that moved and when they moved and lighting and, like, all of that. I studied that of camera angles and where they should be and, like, I just I just knew.
Richard Wilmore [00:26:12]:
So I studied and studied and took all of that. But I always, like, to me, my show should be on TV. But, that’s what I tell people when I’m working with them on podcast. Like, you don’t have to you don’t have to have this to have a good podcast. Like, this is just me being ridiculous and extra. You can do it wherever. You know? I just started a podcast with with someone, and we were thinking about how her office should be because we were trying to figure out how to record it. And I was like, well, why don’t you just not record it? And, like, the look on her face was like, we don’t have to record it.
Richard Wilmore [00:26:44]:
I’m like, you don’t have to film it. Like, let’s just use audio. And great. You know? Like, it doesn’t have to be as it doesn’t have to be expensive. It’s It’s time consuming, but it doesn’t have to cost you a ton of money and you don’t have to have a space to do it. You just wanna create.
Nancy Norbeck [00:27:04]:
Right. Right. And, and I’m, I’m thinking right now, you know, couple, couple years ago during lockdown, I think I talked to Eddie Louise Clark, who with her husband in a one bedroom apartment produced an audio drama show. They did all the music, they did all the special effects. They did the whole thing in a one bedroom apartment. So, you know, if you, if you want to start something like that and you think I don’t have any way to do this, they figured out how to do it in a one bedroom apartment.
Richard Wilmore [00:27:38]:
Yep.
Nancy Norbeck [00:27:38]:
You know, like, there are ways to do things. And I think that a lot of people figured out during lockdown that, like, you could do all sorts of creative things in your own house because it was that or go completely stir crazy. So people started doing interesting things, you know, with what they had, where they were. But, you know, I mean, when, when I met them at a, at a convention and, you know, started talking to them was right around the time I was starting this show. Hey, them at a, at a convention and, you know, started talking to them was right around the time I was starting this show. You know, I mean, they were literally doing a, a fully workshop, you know, how to do all of your own special sound effects and stuff like that. And I was like, you do this in a one bedroom. Wow.
Nancy Norbeck [00:28:16]:
Holy crap. Like, where do you Yeah. Where do you put yourself? You know? But they made it work, and they did it for several years. I’m not sure if it’s still if it still is running. But, you know, I mean, to listen to it, you you couldn’t tell that it was done in somebody’s tiny little apartment.
Richard Wilmore [00:28:33]:
Yeah.
Nancy Norbeck [00:28:34]:
You know? I I mean, people can make all sorts of things happen because they’re just determined and they don’t wanna wait for whatever it is that somebody else thinks they have to have in order to do their thing. Yeah.
Richard Wilmore [00:28:48]:
I when I was in my one bedroom apartment, I had, in my living room, I had a full set. I had, like, the curtain that I would come out of. I had the backdrop. I had the desk. I had the and I would set it up every time I went to interview someone, and then I would take it down and put it in a closet because it was my living room. And, I just did it because I felt like I I had to do it. You know? Like, I needed to do it. And I always do my show.
Richard Wilmore [00:29:16]:
Like, people always ask me about, like, seasons. Like, when when is my season over? And my seasons are always over when I feel like it’s too much work. Like, when I’m not having fun.
Nancy Norbeck [00:29:26]:
Mhmm.
Richard Wilmore [00:29:27]:
It’s like it’s like, that’s what I love about podcast is it there are no seasons, and there are no time limits. So if I’m tired and I don’t wanna do it anymore, then I take a break. And then every time because sometimes I quit I quit doing my first show after I got out of the hospital in 2022. I was like, okay. Let’s re figure out our life. So I stopped my show that I’d done for six years, and I was like, I’m not doing that anymore. And then a couple years later, I was like, guess what I missed doing? And now here we are. So but you need that, you know, like, it’s it’s such a creative field that you need that time to live life and and refill that bucket.
Nancy Norbeck [00:30:09]:
Yeah. And that’s something we don’t talk about enough either. You know, we think that, that you gotta just go, go, go.
Richard Wilmore [00:30:18]:
Yeah.
Nancy Norbeck [00:30:18]:
And, and that’s something that every once in a while I think about with this podcast, because I’m, you know, halfway through year seven and it’s, I’ve never, it’s been week after week after week for, you know, six and a half years. And sometimes I think about, should I take a break? And I usually am like, no, I’m still having fun, so I’m going to keep going. But every once in a while, you know, you kind of go, don’t know.
Richard Wilmore [00:30:44]:
Yeah. So Yeah. Yes. And then you go through the, like, well, what if when I come back, people aren’t gonna be there. Like, people are used to, you get, like, all this stuff in your head. I I used to do a weekly show, and then with this show that I’m doing now, I because I always wanted to do a daily talk show. And we’re 200 and some episodes in. I’m like, I’m getting a little tired here.
Richard Wilmore [00:31:13]:
And when I first, joined PodMatch, it was fantastic. Like, it was overwhelming the response that I had from people. And I was doing, like, seven, eight interviews a day every day. And I did that for two months, and I was like, okay. I’m still I don’t know when this is coming out, but we’re in April. I’m still using interviews from December. Yeah. Because there were so many.
Richard Wilmore [00:31:40]:
And so I’m like, well, I wanna get them out because I don’t want them to be so out of date.
Nancy Norbeck [00:31:46]:
Right.
Richard Wilmore [00:31:47]:
But, it was just a lot of energy output, and so I had to kinda figure out how to balance that. So I did I didn’t wanna burn myself out because this is what I’ve always wanted to do. Always wanna do this my entire life. I have the opportunity, and I didn’t wanna screw it up in two months. So, you know, it’s figuring that out and and being okay with changing. Like, I’ve changed different aspects of my show all the time just because something works better than something else. Yeah.
Nancy Norbeck [00:32:16]:
And and, you know, can, can we talk about the fact that you can burn out on things you love doing? Because nobody talks about that.
Richard Wilmore [00:32:25]:
Yeah.
Nancy Norbeck [00:32:26]:
You know, I mean, I’ve talked about how I didn’t realize that this podcast was gonna save my life when I started it. You know, it was in many ways, like, the antidote to some situations that I was in that were really wearing me down, but that doesn’t mean that you still can’t have too much of a good thing.
Richard Wilmore [00:32:44]:
Yeah. A 100%. Yeah. Yes. I and it’s like, I’m I’ll be like, well, this is this is what I always wanted to do. Right? So, like, that’s the thing that you put in your head of, like, you can’t be tired because this is what you always wanted to do. But in reality, it’s it’s a lot of work that goes into a lot of work, a lot of time, a lot of energy, and that can be really draining. You need time to go live your life, to be excited to go do the thing that you still love doing.
Richard Wilmore [00:33:16]:
So it’s been a it’s been in it’s been I’m doing it for almost a year, and it’s been a very interesting, like, exercise in what I’m capable of and what I really like doing, what really makes me happy.
Nancy Norbeck [00:33:31]:
Yeah. It’s a good way to find out. You know?
Richard Wilmore [00:33:35]:
There’s stuff in the deep end. Yes. Yeah. Uh-huh.
Nancy Norbeck [00:33:40]:
Yeah. There’s, there’s something to be said for that too. You know, it’s, it’s sorta like what we were saying before, you know, your dad’s saying you’re going to try this and you’re going to try this and you’re going to try this. You know, I mean, you found out in that case that you didn’t really like any of it, but you know, there’s, there’s no way to find out for real, if you’re going to like what you’re doing, except to just go do it. Yeah. You know, and again, if you don’t, if you don’t like the quail, you don’t have to eat it. Right. Yeah.
Nancy Norbeck [00:34:11]:
Exactly. You know, or, or whatever it happens to be. And it’s okay if you think, I mean, it’s sad if you have had a dream that turns out not to match the reality, but you still don’t have to actually do it if it turns out that you were wrong.
Richard Wilmore [00:34:28]:
Yeah. At least you did it. And then and at least you tried it and you learned from it. Like, that’s always my thing. It was like, well, what did you learn from whatever you went through? Like, and if you learn something, then that’s exactly why you went through it. Or it’s like figuring out, okay. Well, I didn’t like that version of it or that I didn’t like the way I did how I did that. So, like, can I change that? Change something about the way I’m doing it to still love it.
Richard Wilmore [00:34:53]:
You know? I’m sure you go through the same thing with the people you talk to. Like, I talked to a lot of artists who love to create and are beautiful painters, beautiful artists, but don’t want to turn it into a job because they don’t, they don’t want to sell their artwork or be commissioned because they don’t want it to be work. So fascinating.
Nancy Norbeck [00:35:15]:
It’s a fine line, you know? I mean, it, it, you can really ruin something you love if, if you turn it into work and you don’t do it the right way. And the problem with that is that you may not know what the right way is when you do it. Yeah. You know, you you if it turns into something where there there was an article, and I’m sure I can find it again because I’ve managed to find it a couple of times, but there there was an article again during lockdown about someone who was a potter. She made mugs and she’d always done it on the side. And then, you know, she started to get so much demand for them that she turned it into a business. And then it it did cease to be as much about her and her own creative direction and more work instead of, you know, art and fun and whatever. And and I think in that article, if I correctly recall, she’s kind of wrestling with that.
Nancy Norbeck [00:36:12]:
Like, what does that mean? And now now I’m kind of stuck in this, which of course she wasn’t really. She could have stopped at any time if she’d wanted to, but I think she may, again, if I’m remembering this correctly, you know, have been kind of wrestling with, is that what I wanna do? How long do I wanna do this? Is there a different way to, to make it feel more like it used to, because now it’s not what it was when I started. You know what I mean? That’s a tricky thing, especially if, if you start to feel like you have to make your art to please other people. Yeah. Then it can really be rough because it’s like, I don’t wanna make this kooky thing that somebody else wants. I wanna make this wild goofy thing that I like for me. You know? And Right. That can be a really serious internal conflict that can be really tough to to wrestle with.
Nancy Norbeck [00:36:58]:
Like, do you make 10 of this kooky thing that you don’t really like because somebody paid you to make it and then find time to make the goofy thing that you really love? And is that enough for it to work for you? Or do you have to, you know, come up with some other plan? Like, that’s rough.
Richard Wilmore [00:37:15]:
That’s you’re making my eyes water because I feel like you just hit on something that I’ve been going through that I didn’t realize that was the that was why until you just said that because I’ve been going, like, I have it’s with sponsors for my show. And so I have a couple sponsors, and people are always like, well, you like, you should have a sponsor packet. Why don’t you have why aren’t you selling ads on your show? And I think that’s why is because then I feel like I owe something to whoever is paying me. Someone’s giving me money to do something, and now I feel like I’m the, like, I don’t know, the monkey at the zoo or whatever where I, like, have to perform. And what if it’s not to that expectation? Or what if I have to change to fit what that person wants? But, I mean, they wouldn’t yeah. I mean, they wouldn’t be coming to the potter if they didn’t love what they already did, and they wouldn’t be coming to me if they didn’t already love. So you have to, like, adjust your thinking. But, yeah, there’s that, like, pressure then that we put on ourselves to do something different when people are connecting with us because they like what we’re currently doing anyway.
Nancy Norbeck [00:38:20]:
Right. And and there is you know, if if somebody commissions a potter to, you know, make, I don’t know, a mug with a Wolf on it off the top of my head and. You know, odds are like, they want something in that Potter style. Right. That’s why they asked for it. There’s still the chance that whatever that Potter comes up with is not going to be what they had in mind. So it’s still a risk, you know, it’s still a gamble, but they came for that reason. So it’s, it’s something of a mitigated gamble, but, but yeah, it’s, it’s kind of a tough thing.
Nancy Norbeck [00:39:02]:
What do you do if you’ve gone and you’ve made the mug and they hate it? I mean, presumably you keep it and you sell it to somebody else because somebody else is gonna love it. But, but still, like, what do you, what, what do you do then? Are you, are you working to spec or are you working to create stuff in your style? Because that’s what somebody came for. And I not ever having done work like that. I don’t exactly know how that works. I mean, I know like if you’re, if you’re doing a freelance piece, you’re going to have to adapt it to what they want or they’ll adapt it and pay you for it and may or may not put your name on it. And it, you know, it won’t resemble what you actually sent them, but, but you’ll get paid for it anyway, usually. But yeah, it’s still, it’s a, it’s a weird, it’s a weird
Richard Wilmore [00:39:53]:
thing. Yeah.
Nancy Norbeck [00:39:54]:
You know?
Richard Wilmore [00:39:54]:
Yeah. And I wonder if that goes back to trusting yourself and believing in yourself and having confidence in in your ability and your work to begin with. You know? Yeah. Because you can always, no matter what you’re doing, you’d be like, well, it couldn’t it might not be good enough. It might not be what anybody like, that could go to anything. But eventually, you have to not care, I suppose.
Nancy Norbeck [00:40:19]:
Well, yeah. And if you’re creating that, that Wolf mug from that place, you’re probably going to screw it
Richard Wilmore [00:40:25]:
up. Right.
Nancy Norbeck [00:40:27]:
So, so that’s, that’s the tough thing too. I mean, I think, I think you got to listen to yourself first and, and follow that instinct. And, and I don’t know, maybe, maybe somebody who’s listening to this, who’s done this will, you know, send me a note and tell me, but you know, maybe you you send sketches along the way and say, this is, this is what I’m doing. And then if they hate it, you keep that sketch for something else and, and redo something for that person. I, I don’t know. But I do think that, you know, listening to yourself is, is such a key thing. And so many of us have been trained not to do it. Mhmm.
Nancy Norbeck [00:41:08]:
You know? And I and I think lately, I’m definitely noticing the more I listen to myself, the better things go. The more I trust myself, the better things go. So Do you
Richard Wilmore [00:41:21]:
also I’m gonna say, like, after I don’t listen to my gut on a on whatever topic it is, And then I go back and go, well, I knew that going into it. I knew, but I didn’t listen. Hate those moments. I know. And then you think you’re gonna learn from that moment of like, okay. Going forward, I know I’m not going to get the coil anymore because I didn’t like it. And then the next time the coil, you’re like, well, I don’t know. Maybe this time.
Richard Wilmore [00:41:52]:
I don’t know. I don’t know if you find that too where, like, you know Like, I know. Just listen to yourself. Listen to your gut. And then but there’s that one thing in the back of your mind that’s like, yeah. But my therapist would be so mad at at that at that. Sorry.
Nancy Norbeck [00:42:10]:
I think it’s it’s so easy. Like, there there’s a Richard Feynman quote about how, like, the easiest person to fool is yourself. You know? And and I think that’s so true. Like, the it nobody is as good at clouding your own judgment as you are. Yeah. You know, like, like 10 other people can come in and try to mess with your head and you’re just gonna be sitting there going, man, what are you doing? I know you’re trying to screw me up here. And they walk out of the room and leave you on your own, and that’s when you’re in deep trouble.
Richard Wilmore [00:42:45]:
Yep.
Nancy Norbeck [00:42:46]:
Right? Because your own capacity to mess with yourself can be so incredibly strong. And that’s that’s where I have really screwed myself up, is is when all the little gremlin voices get in there and start messing with me, whether it’s shiny object syndrome or voices of doubt or whatever. And it’s it can be really hard to shut them all up well enough to just get quiet and and listen to that actual I think they call it a still small voice for a reason because it’s really hard to hear under all of that. And, you know, kinda go, okay. What what is really the right thing to do now? Because when you can hear that voice and listen to it, then it’s a whole lot easier. And generally, when I can hear that voice, I do listen to it because it’s like, oh, wait. That’s that’s the one. There it is.
Nancy Norbeck [00:43:41]:
But it the other ones can masquerade really well Uh-huh. As that voice.
Richard Wilmore [00:43:47]:
Yes. Yes. And there’s so, there’s so many of them sometimes.
Nancy Norbeck [00:43:54]:
Uh-huh.
Richard Wilmore [00:43:55]:
That’s what’s it’s not like the, you know, devil and angel on your shoulder. It’s like a whole brigade that’s telling you all the things. It’s, you know, yourself, I suppose, trying to keep yourself safe Uh-huh. Right, from disappointment and hurt and all that stuff. But I don’t know. It’s such it’s so interesting that you always feel like you’re the only one that thinks you can’t do something. But really, like, so many everybody I talk to is always like, oh, yes. I have I have four.
Richard Wilmore [00:44:27]:
Yes. Yeah. It’s so crazy.
Nancy Norbeck [00:44:29]:
It’s everybody. It’s so sad.
Richard Wilmore [00:44:30]:
The same thing, like, with with that guest that I told you about with the set design. Like, that’s in my head. I don’t know how many hundred and some other great reviews I have. I couldn’t tell you a single one of those. Right. But I can tell you that someone didn’t like my set, and that is still what keeps me up at night.
Nancy Norbeck [00:44:50]:
That good old negativity bias just Yeah. Blows it all out of proportion.
Richard Wilmore [00:44:55]:
Yeah.
Nancy Norbeck [00:44:56]:
Yeah. Now, but wouldn’t wouldn’t it be great if it really was just the angel and the devil on your shoulder? Because then you’d know that’s what they were. And then you could just say, I’m not gonna listen to the devil. I’ll listen to the angel because the angel presumably has my best interest at heart, and then and away we go. But, but no, they’re, they’re all multifaceted and none of them is, you know, wearing a red suit and a trident and horns or a nice white robe with a halo. And so you’re, you have no idea most of the time, which one is really the one that’s telling you the truth.
Richard Wilmore [00:45:29]:
Yeah, I know. And then you go, well, you listen to yourself, but then you’re so in it that sometimes you’re also clouded by that, like what you think, whatever. And so you need outside, I don’t know, governance, like, outside someone to, like, tell you if something’s working or not. Yeah. And that also, you know, like, it’s such a crazy kind of mind. Or or you do know, and you’re so sure,
Nancy Norbeck [00:45:58]:
and then you say it out loud to someone and they say, oh, come on. That’s not really, you know, because whatever, you know, this is, this is what generally happens. I have some thing that I know is absolutely the way that I should do something or be or whatever. And it’s completely outside the norm. And that’s when I get in trouble because it’s outside the norm. So I will doubt it. And then I will tell someone else. And because it’s outside the norm, that’s when I’ll get, oh, come on.
Nancy Norbeck [00:46:34]:
You don’t really want to do that. Right. Cause because that’s dangerous for some reason or it’s just too weird or whatever. And so I go along and I try, kinda like what we were saying before about being yourself, I try to make myself be the other thing, and then it doesn’t work. And I go, I should have listened to myself. Should have listened to myself.
Richard Wilmore [00:46:54]:
Yep. Yes. I used to have I would do the same thing. I would come up with, you know, kind of out of the box ideas for different things or things that weren’t normal. And I had a boss who didn’t I well, I was told no about all of it because it was either too weird, whatever, but then they would turn around two weeks later and pitch it as their idea.
Nancy Norbeck [00:47:18]:
Oh, that’s the worst.
Richard Wilmore [00:47:19]:
And then then it was, like, the best idea ever. And then you start thinking you’re the crazy one. Like, you’re the one that was, like, wait. Did I wait a minute. Like, I think I thought of that two months ago, and it was an op like, it’s such a weird dynamic to put yourself in.
Nancy Norbeck [00:47:35]:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s kind of weirdly gaslighty too because it’s like, that was my idea. And
Richard Wilmore [00:47:41]:
Yeah.
Nancy Norbeck [00:47:43]:
You told me I was wrong and crazy. Yeah. And now you’re oh, okay.
Richard Wilmore [00:47:49]:
Yeah. And then you’re like, well, maybe I’m not maybe I don’t have good ideas. Like, maybe you know, then you start, like, self doubting yourself again. That’s I mean, that in my entire life, like, knowing since I was 10 that I needed to be a talk show host and then trying to find 75 other jobs that were not that and then not being happy with any of them. And then being like, oh, well, this is because you’re supposed to be doing this. Mhmm. You’re trying to do everything else but that.
Nancy Norbeck [00:48:16]:
Yeah. And I think there are a lot of people who fall into that. You know, not everybody fits into neat categories that show up in want ads. And then you sit there going, what’s wrong with me? You know, I can try to turn myself into, you know, a secretary or a project manager or whatever, and, you know, no shade to any of those things. I know people who are great at all of that stuff, but if that’s not what you are and you can’t find yourself in any of those things, that’s frustrating too. What the heck do you do?
Richard Wilmore [00:48:53]:
Yeah. I paid someone. I went for I was trying to find a job, and so I had made a resume. No one was hiring me. And I paid a company to help me rewrite my resume. And the same thing, because I’ve had such strange jobs, I I owned a fashion truck, and I you know, like, I’ve done all these, like, random things. And they didn’t know, like, what to do with me. Like, how to form that resume, how that should look like because it wasn’t he is a manager.
Richard Wilmore [00:49:28]:
He is a this. Yeah. And they were like, well, they did it. And I was like, this isn’t this is not what I’ve done because they just sort of picked out the things that they could they knew and they knew how to describe. And it’s still like that because it’s just so out there.
Nancy Norbeck [00:49:49]:
Yeah. Yeah. I’ve I’ve had moments like that too. Because my resume is not as varied as yours, but still very different things. And to try to make something coherent out of it can be really tough. It’s like, okay, so what, what, what am I exactly?
Richard Wilmore [00:50:11]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Nancy Norbeck [00:50:11]:
I’m a combination of lots of different things. And unfortunately, just saying, hi, I’m me on your resume doesn’t tend to work super well.
Richard Wilmore [00:50:20]:
I know. Yes. It’s so true. Yeah. Yeah. And how do you make it? Because, you know, so many, so many resumes now are read by not people.
Nancy Norbeck [00:50:34]:
Mhmm.
Richard Wilmore [00:50:35]:
And so how do you make it so you stand out, but also make it look like you’ve done real work. It’s that kind of complicated.
Nancy Norbeck [00:50:46]:
Yeah. Well, and I, I think so much is in that, you know, read by not people.
Richard Wilmore [00:50:51]:
Yeah.
Nancy Norbeck [00:50:51]:
Like, I, I think we’re, we’re losing something because we’re handing all this stuff over to not people.
Richard Wilmore [00:50:59]:
Yeah. Yeah. When I was like struggling to find a job, people would say like, well, they just have to meet you. And then of course they’re gonna like, you have such a great personality. They just have to meet you and they’re gonna like, you just just get an interview. I’m like, that’s the problem is just getting the interview. Like, sure. Once they meet me, great.
Richard Wilmore [00:51:17]:
But like, I can’t even get them to meet me.
Nancy Norbeck [00:51:20]:
Mhmm.
Richard Wilmore [00:51:21]:
And how do you how do you get through that?
Nancy Norbeck [00:51:23]:
Right. Right.
Richard Wilmore [00:51:25]:
Create your own job. That’s what I did. Exactly.
Nancy Norbeck [00:51:27]:
I
Richard Wilmore [00:51:27]:
was like, well, okay, fine. Just do it myself.
Nancy Norbeck [00:51:30]:
Yeah. Well, and, and speaking of interviews to pivot slightly, I want to make sure that we get a chance to talk about some of the, you know, interviews that you’ve done. Because I’m sure that, like me, you’ve had a chance to talk to some really, really interesting people, and I’ll bet some folks you didn’t expect.
Richard Wilmore [00:51:49]:
I feel like that every day. Yes. Like, every day, I learn something. And every day, I’m shocked when I’m talking to someone and I get goosebumps, or I’ve talked to so many people that my eyes start watering. But I’ve also been able to talk to people in Rosie O’Donnell’s, like, sphere and world, which is always, like, so fun for me because I feel like, okay. I’m just you know, it’s like six degrees of Kevin Bacon or whatever that is. But I’m always, like, two degrees, and she’s not eating bacon, and that’s so annoying to me. But she’ll come on eventually.
Richard Wilmore [00:52:22]:
So, yes, I I have met some people that I’ve idolized since I was a kid, just by reaching out to people and being like, you know what? I love you, and I would love to talk to you. And it’s so surprising when people are like, oh, okay. Sure. Let’s chat. So, every day truly is, like, over the last however many years it’s been, almost ten years of interviewing people. The the the generosity of people of just coming on to, you know, someone they don’t know and and sharing their stories has been remarkable.
Nancy Norbeck [00:53:03]:
Yeah. Yeah. It’s and it’s remarkable to me how many people, like what you said, you know, when you ask how many people will say, yeah, sure.
Richard Wilmore [00:53:11]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Nancy Norbeck [00:53:13]:
You know, I think, I think that people think that you can’t do that. You can’t just go up to somebody, especially if they’re a better known somebody and and ask that question. But, you know, I’ve, I’ve done it enough times now and, and pretty much everybody, not everybody, everybody, but pretty close says yes. Whether or not we managed to make it happen is a different story. But but, you know, it it almost always gets a positive reception And yet people are just terrified. Oh, I couldn’t I couldn’t do that. You know, they’re gonna say no. You know? And and that’s the thing.
Nancy Norbeck [00:53:50]:
It’s not even so much, I think, that they think they can’t go ask is that they are just convinced that they’re gonna get the most horrifying no of their lives. Like, not just a no A restraining order. Yeah. Dare you ask me this question, you know. And and that’s not what happens in my experience.
Richard Wilmore [00:54:07]:
Fear of rejection is is something real. Yes. But usually, it’s those people that I’m intimidated to ask that end up going, well, that was really fun. I can also get you x, y, and z. I think this person would be a great guest on your show, and so that’s always encouraging. But Yeah. That again, that fee that jump to go, okay. I’m just gonna DM this person that I love on Instagram.
Richard Wilmore [00:54:32]:
I’ve had multiple people on my show because of that, that I I grew up loving.
Nancy Norbeck [00:54:37]:
Yeah. You just never know. Yeah. It’s, it’s worth taking a chance and giving it a whirl and, and, you know, it’s entirely possible that they’ll say yes, and you’ll be sitting there going, holy cow. And it beats never asking and wondering what would have happened later on if you had. Yep. You know, it’s kind of like what you were saying earlier about at least you tried. Yeah.
Nancy Norbeck [00:55:01]:
Trying is better than wishing that you had later on. You know, even if it doesn’t work, at least then you know.
Richard Wilmore [00:55:09]:
Yeah. Yeah. It’s yes. At least then you’re not regretting that you never did it.
Nancy Norbeck [00:55:13]:
Yeah.
Richard Wilmore [00:55:13]:
You can’t regret that you did it if something crazy happens, but the likelihood of that is so slim. Mhmm. Especially in this field. All they’re gonna do is either not respond or say no. Like, those are the worst things that can happen. That’s not all.
Nancy Norbeck [00:55:27]:
Right. If they say no, you don’t have anything less than you had before you asked. Correct. And I think a lot of people don’t realize that. They think that, you know, they’re gonna lose something terrible. No. You are just exactly right.
Richard Wilmore [00:55:39]:
Rosie hasn’t said no yet. She hasn’t said anything, but she hasn’t said no. And that’s why I keep asking because that just means not yet to me. It’s the, you know
Nancy Norbeck [00:55:48]:
Yeah. Yeah. If it’s not a no, then then, you know, there’s still a possibility. So
Richard Wilmore [00:55:54]:
Yep.
Nancy Norbeck [00:55:55]:
If you were annoying the heck out of her, I think you’d know by now.
Richard Wilmore [00:55:59]:
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I know. I remember, like, she would always, like, when the internet was kind of getting popular on her show, she would say, you know, if if this was available when I was a kid and Barbra Streisand was online like this, I would be constantly tweeting her. I would constantly be bombarding her with stuff because I would want her to notice me. So I thought, well, okay, well then that’s what I’ll do to you.
Nancy Norbeck [00:56:28]:
And yet, you know, I mean that that’s not, that’s not an invitation as such, but it is, you know, a statement that she gets it. Yeah. Right. Yep. Like, like she totally gets it because that’s what she would have done.
Richard Wilmore [00:56:42]:
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Mhmm.
Nancy Norbeck [00:56:46]:
I mean, it’s, it’s worth a shot. Some of the people that I’ve talked to are people that if you had told me twenty years ago that that I would have ever interviewed people from Doctor Who, I would have laughed at you. Yeah. You know? I mean, absolutely laughed at you. Like, what on earth are you talking about?
Richard Wilmore [00:57:06]:
But that’s how we are. So
Nancy Norbeck [00:57:10]:
you just never know. It’s worth, it’s worth taking the crazy leap when you get the idea to start a podcast when you’re in the shower at the gym one night. I mean, you just don’t know where it’ll take you, just like You don’t. The places that your show has taken you.
Richard Wilmore [00:57:25]:
Yeah. And just the people you get to meet and the stories. And, I know from my show, people have, gotten jobs from it and, you know, like, lifelong friendships just because two guests were on my show and ended up meeting each other, and then one hired the other person. Like, you know, it feel I feel so lucky and privileged that, like, I get to be the facilitator of that, the ringleader of of all of that because you just never know who’s watching, who’s showing up, who’s going to show up as a guest, and, like, how that affects people’s lives. Because I know it did mine. Like, that’s why I’m doing it. You know? Like, Rosie show, like, saved my life in so many ways that I feel like I know the power in that.
Nancy Norbeck [00:58:13]:
Yeah. Yeah. And it, it is really a privilege to be able to have any part in something like that. It’s amazing. Yeah. It’s amazing.
Richard Wilmore [00:58:23]:
And then get to have you on my show and then you invite me on your show, like, come on, What kind of life is this? You know?
Nancy Norbeck [00:58:29]:
It’s very cool.
Richard Wilmore [00:58:31]:
Yeah. Yeah. Not a bad gig. Not a
Nancy Norbeck [00:58:34]:
bad gig at all. I did wanna ask you, because I I’ve been thinking about it since, since I said people should go on YouTube, which certainly they they can and should do to check out your show. But, which you can also listen to on, on a regular podcast player. But I would love for you to send me a picture of that set so that I can put it in the show notes on my website so that people can see it too. Cause I just think they should be able to do that whichever way works best for them. So, yeah. But but I’ve had a great time today, so thanks for coming.
Richard Wilmore [00:59:03]:
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Nancy Norbeck [00:59:06]:
That’s this week’s show. Thanks so much to Richard Wilmore and to you. Richard’s links and a photo of his set are in the show notes. I hope you’ll leave a review for this episode. There’s a link right in your podcast app, and it is super easy, and it really makes a difference. If you enjoyed our conversation, please do share it with a friend. Thanks so much. If this episode resonated with you or if you’re feeling a little bit less than confident in your creative process right now, join me at the spark on Substack as we form a community that supports and celebrates each other’s creative courage.
Nancy Norbeck [00:59:40]:
It’s free, and it’s also where I’ll be adding programs for subscribers and listeners. The link is in your podcast app, so sign up today. See you there, and see you next week. Follow Your Curiosity is produced by me, Nancy Norbeck, with music by Joseph McDade. If you like Follow Your Curiosity, please subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And don’t forget to tell your friends. It really helps me reach new listeners.