Navigating Your Inner Wilderness with Darcy Wade

Darcy Wade is an expressive arts therapist who knows what it’s like to be derailed from her creative dream. As you’ll hear, one simple incident in high school destroyed her artistic identity, leaving her adrift through college. A chance interaction brought her back to herself and got her on the expressive arts path. If you’ve never heard of expressive arts, don’t worry—she has you covered as we talk about her early life as an artist, how she was thrown from that path and how she got back on it, and how wilderness and expressive arts therapy can bring us back to ourselves.

Your creative force is you gaining your control back.

Darcy Wade

Show links

Darcy’s website

Instagram

Nature-Based Expressive Arts Therapy book

SoulCollage®

Subscribe!

You can subscribe to Follow Your Curiosity via the handy links at the top of the page for Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart Radio, TuneIn, and YouTube. If you enjoyed the episode, don’t forget to tell your friends!

Transcript

Please note: This is an unedited transcript, provided as a courtesy, and reflects the actual conversation as closely as possible. Please forgive any typographical or grammatical errors.

Nancy Norbeck [00:00:07]:
Hello, and welcome to Follow Your Curiosity, where we explore the ups and downs of the creative process and how to keep it moving. I’m your host, Nancy Norbeck. I am a writer, singer, improv comedy newbie, science fiction geek, and creativity coach who loves helping right brained folks get unstuck. I am so excited to be coming to you with interviews and coaching calls to show you the depth and breadth both of creative pursuits and creative people, to give you some insight into their experiences, and to inspire you. When we picture a creative life, a lot of us imagine sunshine, painters’ palettes, freedom, bright colors, music, and free expression. We forget or want to forget that creativity requires the kind of vulnerability that can leave us blocked by the right words from the wrong person at the wrong time. It can take less than we might think to be thrown completely off our creative course, and the results can be devastating. Darcy Wade is an expressive arts therapist who has lived that story.

Nancy Norbeck [00:01:08]:
As you’ll hear, one simple incident in high school destroyed her artistic identity, leaving her adrift through college. A chance interaction brought her back to herself and got her on the expressive arts path. If you’ve never heard of expressive arts, don’t worry. She has you covered as we talk about her early life as an artist, how she was thrown from that path and how she got back on it, and how the pressure free exploratory world of wilderness and expressive arts therapy can bring us back to ourselves. It’s a deeply vulnerable conversation and just as beautiful. I think you’ll get a lot out of my conversation with Darcy Wade. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Darcy Wade [00:01:48]:
Thank you for having me.

Nancy Norbeck [00:01:50]:
You’re so welcome. So I I I’ve looked at your website, and I’ve seen your art, which is amazing. And, yes, there will be a link in the show notes so you all can go see it too. And I I’m just wondering, you know, how how did you start as an artist? Was it just, you know, stuff that we all drew as a kid and you just didn’t stop, or was there something particular that pushed you in that direction?

Darcy Wade [00:02:13]:
Well, thank you, first of all. I appreciate that so much. My mom is also an artist, and I some of my earliest memories honestly are just drawing with her. And she would just kind of, you know, draw outlines for me for, you know, faces and people, and I’d fill them in. And I I think I just always was really attracted to art even before I understood the concept that my parents were artists. My dad’s an appreciator of art, and my mom’s actually, like, a creator of art. But I think art has always just run-in my bones and my blood, and I just adore it. And so just throughout school, it was always the class that I felt like I was quote unquote good at.

Darcy Wade [00:02:59]:
All the other classes I struggled with. So it was always kind of a safety zone for me. But, yeah, I just I’ve always loved creating and expressing myself.

Nancy Norbeck [00:03:08]:
Did your mom do anything to particularly encourage you or your Wade? But your mom seems like the most likely one. I could be wrong.

Darcy Wade [00:03:16]:
Yeah. They both were really into me having extracurricular activities. They both worked full time, so I was in afterschools

Nancy Norbeck [00:03:25]:
Mhmm.

Darcy Wade [00:03:25]:
Throughout my most of my childhood. And, they they were really big on me being, like, in dance and, sports were big. They wanted me to be active. But if I had an interest in, you know, music or whatnot, they were always just really supportive of that and always made best they could Wade it to where if I wanted to do some kind of hobby that was the creative, they would, like, help me out with that and take me to practices and whatnot. So they were very supportive as parents. And then with my mom, I think she just, that was just one of the main things we did together was we would draw all the time together.

Nancy Norbeck [00:04:02]:
Well, that certainly would do it.

Darcy Wade [00:04:04]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Nancy Norbeck [00:04:07]:
So as you got older, did how did how did the experience of art change for you?

Darcy Wade [00:04:14]:
I was thinking about this because it’s every chapter of my life has had a different like, art has been the con consistent theme throughout my life, but I’ve had a different relationship with art throughout a lot of the different chapters. And, I think about in high school, I got really into trying to, like, promote myself as an artist through my school. I was publicity chair for my school, and so I did a lot of, like, visuals and posters and things like that to, like, promote things around the school. And then people started noticing my art, and I was in AP art, like, the highest art class and all that stuff. And I remember so clearly, this is, like, one of those little t traumas for me, like, the things that kinda stuck with me that really brought down my spirit a little bit. But I, in high school, was really close to being voted, the superlative of, like, the most artistic Mhmm. And I didn’t get it. And, mhmm, I did not get it.

Darcy Wade [00:05:17]:
And I remember just, like, feeling so heartbroken from that and just really confused because I Wade worked so hard, and I was starting to find my identity during, like, you know, high school years. It’s kinda confusing to know who you are. And, that really shot my artistic self identity, I guess. And then I remember going into high or into college directly afterwards thinking in my head, oh, I wanna pursue an art degree. And then, like, something, like, got blocked really quickly. And mhmm. And I didn’t really think about the connection between those two until recently Mhmm. When I was just kinda going through my own journey because art was always really fun.

Darcy Wade [00:05:58]:
And then I think subconsciously, I was trying to figure out my career. And then something about not being told that I was most artistic. Like, at that young of a impressionable age and then going into college, and I always felt art was my identity and then there was just something that got blocked. I started really not feeling like I was resonating in art classes. And I I just I stopped doing art for a couple years. Wow. And when I was yeah. And then that’s when I had this whole identity crisis of, like, what am I gonna do with my life? And, and then we’ll probably get into this more, but I ended up turning a lot to, like, substance abuse.

Darcy Wade [00:06:37]:
Oof. And and so then there’s this whole connection there. Now I I then found, expressive arts therapy, arts therapy, which kinda got me out of it. So it went from that was the journey was basically art just being like a hobby, a fun pastime to then, like, it being my identity to then losing it to then it being kind of my own personal saving grace, which is now what I try to help others find.

Nancy Norbeck [00:07:07]:
Yeah. Wow. So I wanna back up before we get too far away from it because I’m wondering, you know, when that happened in high school, did you did you ever talk to your mom or teachers or or friends or anybody about it? Or

Darcy Wade [00:07:22]:
I remember being really confused because a lot of people had come up to me and been like, oh, I vote it for you. I vote it for you. And I went to a really big high school. And so just to even hear that and I always considered myself kinda shy and kind of, you know, I was I knew a lot of people, but I would never have considered myself to be, like, one of the popular cool kids or anything. So just to feel that recognition and to have that moment of, like, oh, I I think I’m gonna be, like, in the yearbook forever for this art thing. And then not getting it, it was more of a shock because so many people had, like, sort of made me think I was gonna get it. And then I remember afterwards, like, crying to my mom about it, but not really making a big deal to anybody else because I felt silly.

Nancy Norbeck [00:08:09]:
Right.

Darcy Wade [00:08:11]:
But looking back, I mean, it was really recently I was going through old journals, and I had found something I’d written about that. And I I felt it in my body. I was like, man, that really had an impact on me. Mhmm. And I and I think I didn’t talk about it much then because I just felt kind of embarrassed and silly. But, but, yeah, it it it definitely I mean, when you’re that young and you think you know your identity and then other people tell you it’s not, it it has an impact for sure.

Nancy Norbeck [00:08:42]:
Yeah. And and even though you obviously had friends that were validating that identity, it wasn’t enough to make up for the shock and the fact that, you know, you get that expectation and then Yeah. Wham. Not there. Ouch. Wait. What happened? I thought I knew where I was.

Darcy Wade [00:08:58]:
Yeah.

Nancy Norbeck [00:08:58]:
So it sounds like, you know, your your mom probably tried to help a little, but it still wasn’t enough to make up for it.

Darcy Wade [00:09:05]:
Yeah. Well, in early, you know, I guess what? I would have been 18, 17, 18, but, like, just your teens, I I think about that in terms of art all the time. How’s one person, someone tells someone they didn’t draw well or have a good you know, they didn’t paint well. And then the whole rest of their life, they think they’re not artists. Yes. Wade can hold such power over us.

Nancy Norbeck [00:09:28]:
Words hold an amazing amount of power. Yeah. Even just from one person. You know, it could be everyone else you know is saying, you’re great, and the wrong person says the wrong thing at the wrong time. And, yeah, it’ll it’ll leave a mark for sure.

Darcy Wade [00:09:44]:
Yeah. Yeah. So mhmm.

Nancy Norbeck [00:09:47]:
So when you got to college and you suddenly were were blocked, did you talk to anybody? You know, were the were the professors helpful or anything like that? Or was was it still kind of the there must be something wrong with me, and I’m not gonna say anything?

Darcy Wade [00:10:03]:
Yeah. College was a interesting early college was a really interesting experience for me as an artist. I it was during I think it was either my freshman or my sophomore year of undergrad that I had my first experiences of not feeling good at art. I I remember it was specifically in a 3 three-dimensional foundations course. So, I’m a very two dimensional artist. I like to paint and draw, but I had to be in a class where I had to bring in a three-dimensional element. And we did, like, wood woodworking and building and sculpture and a lot of stuff that involved measuring and math and whatnot, which was not my strong suit. And I remember just really disconnecting with one of the teachers, and I I couldn’t quite figure out I wasn’t used to not being good at art.

Darcy Wade [00:10:55]:
Mhmm. And I I think that the whole not getting the superlative in high school had an impact on me that I wasn’t feeling, but, obviously, probably I was carrying that with me. And then I’m going into college, which is such an overwhelming experience in general. And then I’m having art classes that didn’t feel like they were complimenting me. And I just I didn’t really talk to anybody, but I remember trying to connect with this professor and him just kind of giving me that feeling of, like, you’re just not good at this. And I remember yeah. And I remember in critiques, and I was not used to that at all. And I remember in critiques because I relied a lot on color Mhmm.

Darcy Wade [00:11:36]:
Since I didn’t know how to create these three-dimensional sculptures and installations, I just relied on a lot of color. And I remember it’s not really me talking to someone, but it was a feedback I got that stuck with me, a criticism where someone had told me that my art looked like a rainbow was just throwing up everywhere.

Nancy Norbeck [00:11:55]:
Oh, because that’s subtle and helpful.

Darcy Wade [00:11:58]:
I’m like, it’s like these little moments that stuck with me. But I think all of that combination really blocked me. And I and it was around that time that I decided to not pursue an actual art degree, and I kinda just was in floating undecided major land for a while.

Nancy Norbeck [00:12:19]:
What did you end up graduating with? Uh-oh.

Darcy Wade [00:12:25]:
Well, it’s this is kinda when I was thinking about just your concept of following your curiosity Mhmm. Like, that to a t is how I ended up finding my career path because I I ended up graduating with this degree, this very, very, very small degree that I think our graduating class a bit only had maybe like 20 or 30 of us out of like a 1,000 person. I went to Appalachian states. It’s a really big school. But I found this program called interdisciplinary studies, which through that, you could self design your own major.

Nancy Norbeck [00:13:04]:
Yeah.

Darcy Wade [00:13:05]:
Yeah. And so I wound up self designing a major called creative art as therapy. I didn’t really even know that expressive arts existed. Like I kinda knew, but not really. I sort of just, but I was to pull back a little bit, when I stopped taking art classes, I ended up getting really into, like, psychology and philosophy and just, like, exploring what else was out there. I was very distant to art because I felt so,

Nancy Norbeck [00:13:33]:
I

Darcy Wade [00:13:33]:
think just a little, like, discouraged and defeated by it. And then I started exploring these other things and was like, oh, wow. Art as a tool to help people. Like, is this a thing? And then I just somehow found this major where I could design my own. And so I ended up graduating with a self designed major that led me now to having an actual graduate degree in expressive arts.

Nancy Norbeck [00:13:57]:
Wow.

Darcy Wade [00:13:58]:
It’s a it’s been a journey. I will definitely say I followed a lot of, just not knowing what’s going on and following curiosity and it ending somewhere.

Nancy Norbeck [00:14:10]:
Yeah. That’s fantastic because you seem to have landed in exactly the right place. So can you tell us a little bit about what exactly Expressive Arts Therapy is? Or maybe just start with Expressive Arts and then add the therapy part because I’m not sure people really know what Expressive Arts are.

Darcy Wade [00:14:25]:
Yeah. I’ve been working on my elevator pitch

Nancy Norbeck [00:14:31]:
for so long.

Darcy Wade [00:14:32]:
So I’ll start by saying that expressive arts, is similar, but it’s not the same thing as art therapy. And a lot of people get those 2 really confused, and I don’t really know specifically art therapy as much because I didn’t study it. But I know that there’s a different differentiation. And with expressive arts, I think the biggest thing is the concept of expression that it it includes all different modalities of creativity. It is not just limited to painting or drawing, which I think is a little bit where people get confused or like, well, I don’t know how to paint. I don’t know how to draw. It’s it’s like that’s that’s perfect. Because we’re a we focus a lot more on just anything that helps you express yourself.

Darcy Wade [00:15:21]:
Dancing’s really big. Drumming’s really big. Poetry, of course, creative work such as drawing and painting are all elements, but we don’t really focus too much on one specific artistic modality. It’s a lot more about the layers of them all and and what you’re intuitively feeling in the moment and what’s allowing you to just express yourself. And it you don’t have to have any background in art to enjoy or to get something out of an expressive arts class or workshop or whatnot. It’s it’s a lot about being in the present moment, a lot about just freeing yourself, and a lot about tapping into that creative flow. Our tagline, like our little I call it just sort of the motto of expressive arts is trusting the process, not the product. And then I think the other big part is it’s very influenced by ceremony and ritual and community.

Darcy Wade [00:16:24]:
So it’s a lot about witnessing each other and being able to be in a safe space where you can create and express and others can witness, and it’s kind of this dialogue that doesn’t always necessarily need words.

Nancy Norbeck [00:16:36]:
Cool.

Darcy Wade [00:16:37]:
Mhmm. Yeah. It’s it’s a really it’s difficult to explain the power of it, but witnessing it and seeing the magic that happens, it’s one of the most beautiful experiences I’ve ever been a part of. And now that I get to lead it and I studied it, it’s it’s a really, really neat experience.

Nancy Norbeck [00:16:56]:
Yeah. I I’ve been a facilitator for, I don’t know, 8 or 9 years. And it’s funny because I’ve that’s how I heard of Expressive Arts because it gets Yes. Thrown into that category, but I don’t think I’ve ever really understood why until you just described it.

Darcy Wade [00:17:13]:
Well, good.

Nancy Norbeck [00:17:14]:
Yeah. Because, you know, it was like, oh, I’m giving this presentation at this expressive arts conference. I’m like, okay. What whatever. But but, yeah, I never really heard a description of of exactly what that meant. But there is a lot of, you know, ritual subtle ritual for the most part in doing a workshop. You know, we’ll start with a meditation. We’ll have music on.

Nancy Norbeck [00:17:36]:
We definitely all look at everybody else’s stuff and and Mhmm. You know, what we got out of those cards, which I’ve talked about once or twice on the podcast before. But if somebody’s listening and doesn’t know, it’s a collage process that’s intended to get you into your own intuition and to get to know the parts of yourself better. And I’ll put a link to it on the show notes for more than that because I don’t wanna spend a whole lot of time on it here. But it it can be really, really profound. And, you know, even somebody who normally only draws stick figures like me can create stuff that looks amazing. That’s not the point, but it’s a nice bonus.

Darcy Wade [00:18:13]:
Yeah. Exactly. Yes.

Nancy Norbeck [00:18:16]:
Yeah.

Darcy Wade [00:18:17]:
When I love that you bring in the Soul Collage because I actually learned of Soul Collage through expressive arts. So they definitely interrelate. And just the concept of soul is so important because this really I I think of it I think this is even in my description on my website of my philosophy of expressive arts. It feels like soul food. Like, it just really helps you connect deeper with yourself, with your own instincts, your own intuition, and then kind of go into a deeper healing that you can then translate onto your community, into the bigger picture. But it, you no, it starts within. And that all sounds very vague and abstract and a little bit like, what are these artsy hippies talking about? But it’s it’s it’s like you really you you it’s so getting out of the normal flow and getting into the creative flow, which is the root of a lot of healing.

Nancy Norbeck [00:19:12]:
Yeah. And I feel like that that’s part of the the magic of doing a workshop is that you’re creating that space. And you do create a sense of sacred space even though you don’t define what sacred means because it’s different for everybody. Yes. You know? But it’s like, this is your 3 hours to come in and get away from the rest of the world and just focus on you and focus on stuff that’s pretty, that means something even if you’re not sure what it is when you put it on a card and and see where it takes you. So yeah. It’s it can be it can be really, really powerful stuff. And I and I’m wondering, like, what what kinds of things have you seen to whatever extent you’re able to talk about them without, you know, violating anybody’s privacy or anything as part of expressive arts?

Darcy Wade [00:20:00]:
Absolutely. I have really attracted to this subcategory that’s still kinda being created. It’s not a super well known widespread, subcategory, but nature based expressive arts therapy is a subcategory of expressive arts that one of my dear mentors and professors, and now she’s a good friend of mine, doctor Malia Snyder. She and her mentor, doctor doctor Sally Atkins, who is also one of the founders and, main individuals who helped start the expressive arts therapy department at Appalachian state. The 2 of them created the very first book ever on nature based expressive arts. And so I kind of am am trying to still keep this concept alive. And it’s a beautiful idea, but it’s basically bringing in the natural world, our experiences out in nature with art. Mhmm.

Darcy Wade [00:21:06]:
And, I can send you a link to some more information about that if you wanna post if other people are are hearing this and like, oh, I wanna hear more about it because that’s a whole different conversation. But but through, my experiences working with specifically nature based expressive arts, I have led a number of workshops for adolescents who are at risk or, a lot of them who have dealt with substance abuse. A lot of them who have just had really rough upbringings, who know, are in those really young impressionable years and trying to figure out themselves, and maybe they’ve experienced some really extreme trauma or they’ve gotten really into addiction or whatnot. Like, there’s so many different ways, but I’ve led these workshops. And, basically with the workshops, it’s a mixture of getting them outside, getting them to just connect with the natural world, but also exploring the creative process through it. And, you know, I can’t really go into detail about what a lot of them said because that’s confidentiality. But I’ve I’ve seen people young, you know, girls and guys who have always put up this wall and who kinda know the system of therapy, who who will just say what they have to say to get out of it, but I’ve seen them just kinda soften and be like, woah. Like, that just brought up some memories of this experience that I never have thought about.

Darcy Wade [00:22:32]:
And because because expressive arts is is, like I said, it’s layering. Like, it’s really going deep, but in a very gentle way.

Nancy Norbeck [00:22:38]:
Mhmm.

Darcy Wade [00:22:38]:
And because you’re using so many things outside of just Wade, just talk therapy, like, you’re using nature, you’re using, you know, the creative process, like, whatever that means, people kinda, like, just become a little bit more open. They’re not so focused on their Wade. So we can get so stuck in using our words and feel really limited with that, or sometimes feel, like, really overly vulnerable having to, like, say, like, share a story that impacted you or really affected you. Like, words can just be both really helpful and really limiting. Mhmm. So with this, it just offers a lot of tools for people to understand their story, their subconscious, their their emotions, their reactivity, and some really I’ve witnessed some big breakthroughs happening from it.

Nancy Norbeck [00:23:25]:
I can believe that. Could

Darcy Wade [00:23:26]:
Yeah.

Nancy Norbeck [00:23:27]:
Could you describe what a nature based expressive arts therapy experience might look like? Because I’m finding myself having a little trouble picturing

Darcy Wade [00:23:35]:
Yeah. What that would be. Which makes sense because it’s not a very common You don’t really hear about this. And that’s kinda why I love it because there’s a lot of magic in it. So one that I really love to do is, you know, if you ideally, you’re outside or you’re in reach of nature. You’re usually not in a enclosed studio or a classroom or anything. But, I I work this will help too. I intern in wilderness therapy, so I was outside a lot with my clients.

Darcy Wade [00:24:09]:
Mhmm. And so usually you’re out in nature. And one, experience I really like to do with them is to have the individuals go on just like a mindful walk. And with that, that’s literally just as it sounds like no talking. Usually you’re just by yourself or, like, in a group and not talking to anyone else. You’re just having your own experience, mindfully walking. So paying attention to everything around you and letting your senses open up, listening to the sounds, looking at everything that’s in front of you, whether that’s trees or grass or whatnot. Just allowing your senses to really open up, which a lot of times we don’t do when we’re always surrounded by all these distractions in our material world.

Darcy Wade [00:24:52]:
So that in itself is just like a huge part of it. Just intentionally being out in nature, moving in it, seeing what’s around, just picking up on what’s attracting to you. So from there, I’ll usually ask, my participants to just, when they’re done with their walk, find one found natural object that really spoke to you. And so you can imagine there’s a ton of options, but having to pick that one option is really having you hone in on what, what is calling out to you. And they’ll usually bring the object back and then we’ll all be in a circle. Usually there’s, a variety of individuals. So it’s usually not 1 on 1, but it could be, but we’ll have a big group and then everyone will go around in the circle and kind of share, first of all, what they experience on their walk. And even though it sounds so simple, it’s amazing.

Darcy Wade [00:25:46]:
Some of the deep things that come up just to allowing people to have that space to just be with themselves and their own thoughts. So we’ll have kind of discussion about it, and then I’ll ask them to kinda, you know, just simply share their object and what attracted them to that object. And from there, you can imagine just the different insights. Like, people will come back with these amazing metaphors or these they’ll be like, well, I found this stick, but it reminds me of just this thing that’s happening. And you just you just get to hear kind of what peep what’s going on internally for people, but then there’s this visual representation and it’s not something they created. There’s no pressure. It’s something they found. And then through that, we typically will I’ve had in the past all different things.

Darcy Wade [00:26:26]:
Like, I’ll have people, create a movement piece based off their, you know, found objects. So if they have a stick or a flower they found to create a movement piece to share so that it’s kinda layering in these different modalities. Or maybe I’ll ask them to create a poem or maybe I’ll have them get into a group, and then they kinda create a group movement or poem or some kind of expressive experience based off what they found and based off what they experience. Sometimes we’ll create group mandalas on everything. Like, there’s so many different directions. And honestly, a lot of the times, I’ll have an idea in my head, but depending on the energy I’m feeling from the group, depending on the feedback that’s coming up, the insights, I’ll just spin it into whatever way Mhmm. Makes sense. Like, there’s never, like, an exact like, this has to come next.

Darcy Wade [00:27:16]:
It’s just sort of playing with what’s coming up for people and allowing them the space to be vulnerable. And really the biggest thing is in those settings when all they’re focused on is just being with nature and being with their creative flow, people just tend to kinda let their guard down a little bit. They just tend to soften and open and be a little bit more intuitive. And so a lot it’s like the energy just doesn’t get us blocked. It kinda unblocks them. Mhmm. So I don’t wanna give away too much specifics because then if anyone were to take a class, it kinda takes away. Right.

Darcy Wade [00:27:51]:
But you can probably understand the flow a little bit just from that.

Nancy Norbeck [00:27:54]:
Yeah. And I’m and I’m wondering too since you’re talking about a group setting. Mhmm. Like, with, I mean, I can do that by myself, or I can do it in a group. And and I have to think that, you know, that must be true with a lot of the kinds of things that you have people do. But I’m wondering, like, what because there must be a difference because of the dynamic. There, you know, there must be pros and cons of both

Darcy Wade [00:28:17]:
Mhmm. About doing it with others.

Nancy Norbeck [00:28:21]:
Or versus by yourself. Yeah.

Darcy Wade [00:28:24]:
Yeah. Well, going back to the whole concept of witnessing, that’s a really big thing in expressive arts of this community aspect, this, sharing something that’s vulnerable. And, usually, like, in our day to day lives, we’re not really being asked to create movement based off, like, sticks, you know, just for as one example. Like, it’s all very abstract, and it can feel really goofy or awkward or weird. But that’s kind of the fun of it, and that’s kind of the a really big part of it is allowing yourself to just open up and be vulnerable in a safe space with others. Like, everyone knows if they’re in an expressive arts group, you’re all kinda in it together. This isn’t like a this is not a critique. This is not an art critique.

Darcy Wade [00:29:12]:
This is not a, a presentation you’re giving in front of your classmates. Like, this is a moment of just holding space for each other and having your own experience held. And for people who may not understand the or have never heard the phrase holding space, that’s that’s literally when you’re just greeting another person ex another person and their experience and their story, with compassion, nonjudgment, openness, and just being there to literally witness their experience with nothing but open hearts and open arms. And that in itself is why it’s so nice to do these kind of experiences in groups because that’s a feeling we don’t always get in a world where there’s so much judgment and critique and, just a lot of comparison comparison and whatnot. So that’s the benefit of the group stuff, but I will say that sometimes I’ll do expressive arts on my own because I need that solitude, and that’s no better or worse. It’s it’s still all soul medicine.

Nancy Norbeck [00:30:15]:
Fair enough. And and as I’m as I’m listening to you, I’m thinking, yeah. You know, when I’ve taught writing classes, especially the writing classes that I’ve developed for adults since I stopped teaching high school and middle school, I always feel like there is I’m not sure exactly how to quantify it, actually, because I haven’t really thought about it in in so long, and I haven’t really ever tried to put it into words. But but there is something I don’t know. I don’t have the right Wade, so I’m just gonna keep going. Yeah. There there is something about being able to, especially in some people’s cases, undo the damage that someone else has been done by criticism. Yes.

Nancy Norbeck [00:31:03]:
You know? When they say, I always love to write, but I had this teacher who made me hate it because she thought I couldn’t write anything. She thought I was terrible, and I’ve always thought I was a terrible writer. So I wanna try one more time, And that’s why I’m here. And you just go, woah. Okay. Yeah. Alright. Now I know that I’ve got, you know, an some extra attention here and and some extra responsibility, not that that’s not something that I wouldn’t consider anyway, because what you really need is something that undoes that.

Nancy Norbeck [00:31:33]:
Yeah. Because odds are really good. Your teacher was wrong. Your teacher was having a bad day. Your teacher was miserable at home. Your teacher thought that the only way to write was this one particular way that they were taught and that nothing else was okay, all of which is crap. And so, you know, we we gotta undo this damage. We gotta build you back up, and it it sounds like there’s a lot of that in what you do.

Darcy Wade [00:31:59]:
Everything you’re saying is so spot on, and, it it’s I lose my words sometimes trying to explain it because it’s almost beyond words because it’s all feeling based. And, what I love about that is, yeah, it’s it’s working on a deeper neurological level. It’s it’s helping your nervous system be reminded that, like, you are supported, you are safe, and that your creative power is a superpower. And other people are

Nancy Norbeck [00:32:33]:
not

Darcy Wade [00:32:35]:
I’m actually reading, the four agreements right now. The second agreement is don’t take anything personally. Mhmm. Because everyone’s just doing the best they can with their own experiences. And

Nancy Norbeck [00:32:45]:
when

Darcy Wade [00:32:45]:
I think about the times that I’ve been in expressive arts groups, it’s really beautiful because not only are you allowing yourself to just be your full self in front of other people and just have that moment to finally just like, I’m just gonna let it all be and just have fun. That’s that’s beautiful in its own and a huge part. And then on the opposite side, being the observer, being the witnesser, you’re kind of having to, like, go back to that time, like, when you didn’t judge to just be open, to know that, like, whatever’s happening for that person that you’re witnessing, like, this is their experience happening, and you do not know the full story. They’re sharing a glimpse of it, but you don’t know what’s coming up. If they start doing something so abstract, like, that’s their experience and to hold that space and and come at it with non judgment. And and it’s it’s like these are such simple and very, very, common sense thoughts that we kind of forget about in day to day life. Mhmm. And

Nancy Norbeck [00:33:46]:
that’s

Darcy Wade [00:33:46]:
the other thing too is expressive arts is really big on play and just fun, and it gets really deep, but balancing that with this concept of just, like, finding your childlike playfulness as well.

Nancy Norbeck [00:34:00]:
Yeah. I mean, not that I’m the expressive arts expert, but just in my own experience from the things I’ve done, those are definitely important things. And I Yeah. I’m still kinda trying to you know, my the back of my mind is still trying to come up with the right words, and I and I don’t really have I I don’t have one because I keep thinking, you know, it’s an it’s an honor and a privilege to witness that kind of thing, but it’s not just that. I mean, there’s there’s so much meaning in there. There’s a bit of awe. There’s, you know, a little sense of of magic. And I think that Yeah.

Nancy Norbeck [00:34:29]:
You know, being in that environment and watching that with someone else, and I’m gonna bet this is behind the witnessing thing. It really it doesn’t just work on that person. I think it works on you too. You know, the the not judging and the not criticizing works on you too because, you know, we we do all these things to ourselves, but also just watching someone else do that is kind of like having this reminder that, yeah, I have permission to do that too. It’s easy for me to say somebody to someone, you have permission to write. You have permission to call yourself an artist even if you’re just pasting magazine images on a card. But, you know, it it’s giving ourselves permission too. It’s like everyone in the room gets this little bit of healing around the stuff that has been broken by schools and families and jobs and other things.

Darcy Wade [00:35:19]:
Yes. And, like, that’s why I was so attracted to this podcast because it’s all about staying curious. Like

Nancy Norbeck [00:35:25]:
Mhmm.

Darcy Wade [00:35:25]:
You coming in at it with no like, you’re allowed to have your own opinions and your own, ideas. Like, we’ve we’ve all formed our own morals and beliefs off of our experiences, but to come in and just have a moment of realizing that, like, it’s okay to just sort of go with the flow and to explore it. And even as a facilitator, a lot of times expressive arts facilitators, like I said, like, will have a basic outline, but we are kind of basing it off of what energy is being brought into the moment. So no to expressive arts experiences are the same. Like, this is not a drawing class. This is not a time to go in and learn literal techniques. Like, you might become a better artist through it. Sure.

Darcy Wade [00:36:10]:
But that’s not the point. The point is to, like, really open up and tap into your own creative flow. And, yeah, on a deeper level, the creative flow is, like, that is what going back to my own story, like, when I was able to retouch back into my creative flow, it helped me break the blocks and the barriers that were put up with me, even though, like, I grew up as an artist, I still got blocked. Mhmm. I still lost myself because of other people’s opinions. And it was when I was able to get back into my own creative flow and build that own resiliency in myself and have that own that self compassion that I I got unblocked. And it’s it’s a continuous thing. You’re never just gonna be fully unblocked or fully blocked.

Darcy Wade [00:36:53]:
Like, it’s it’s a flow.

Nancy Norbeck [00:36:56]:
Right. And and I was just thinking we needed to get back to that because I was wondering. You know? So when when you put this interdisciplinary degree together and then you went off to grad school, how I mean, were were you doing art at that point at at either of those points? It sounds like you’d probably stopped while you were finishing the first degree, but I don’t know if you kinda got back into the second. Or

Darcy Wade [00:37:23]:
So, and I kinda mentioned this very quickly in the beginning, but it is becoming a very big part of my own story. I I struggled with substance abuse for years, and it started in college. Like, I didn’t drink or, you know, do anything really in high school. I was a very you know, I just I I was just not in that scene.

Nancy Norbeck [00:37:48]:
Mhmm.

Darcy Wade [00:37:48]:
And then I went to college and, you know, looking back, I I didn’t connect these dots until recently, but I think when I stopped doing my creativity, when I stopped tapping into my creative flow and and and finding that within me, I was looking for another outlet, which became, like, drinking very heavily and a lot of other substance abuse. And, you know, I was in college, so I always was just like, oh, this is normal. Like, this is just the way of life. Mhmm. And, you know, how easily we can think that, like, something’s normal when really on deeper level, it’s, like, really hurting us. But I got really wrapped into sort of the party scene. And at that young, it was really fun, but I look back and I was like, I was not doing any art at all. And eventually, of course, I kind of crashed and I got into trouble legally.

Darcy Wade [00:38:43]:
I almost got kicked out of school. Like all this stuff happened And thankfully, it all got resolved. But I remember I finally took, like, throughout all the years of being in school and partying all the time and not being the normal when I finally kinda got, like, my kinda kicked into reality of like, hey. Like, this isn’t okay. That’s when I kinda realized like, oh gosh, I need to reevaluate what’s happening. Mhmm. And, this is actually the story that came up a lot when I was thinking about, you know, wanting to share my story about, like, following my own curiosity. I you know, spring break, we would every year on spring break, I would go, like, with my friends and, you know, go party somewhere.

Darcy Wade [00:39:32]:
And 1 year for spring break, I think this was, like, my junior year of college. I decided I didn’t wanna do that, and I was gonna sign up for an alternative spring break experience. I had really no idea what that even meant. I just knew that it was a thing that happened over spring break that would keep me from partying. And I went by myself to the the big sign up thing, whatever it’s called, I guess, the orientation. And, I knew nobody. I didn’t know a single. There were, I think, like, 30 different alternative experiences you could sign up for.

Darcy Wade [00:40:08]:
I knew none of them at all. I I didn’t do any research. I just showed up, kinda had one of those sort of, like, I’m being guided by something. I don’t really know what it is. Like, I was probably really hungover. Like, you know, there was that time in my life where, like, I was kind of just this, like, black sheep in the middle of this group. And I was like, everyone in here just seems, like, so pristine and pure, and I felt not like that. And I just had this feeling.

Darcy Wade [00:40:33]:
I was like, I needed to sign up for one of these and just go for the first one that catches my eye. And I signed up for 1, still not really knowing what it was, took a pamphlet, and just kinda ran out of there because I think at that point, my anxiety was, like, on overdrive. Mhmm. And I went home, and I started researching what I had signed up for kind of in this, like, what just happened to me? And I realized that I had volunteered to go for a week to a treatment center for young kids who had been severely abused, neglected, and abandoned. I don’t even remember if I had read any of that before. Like, this all happened so fast. Yeah. And I had no background at all in any kind.

Darcy Wade [00:41:11]:
I think I may be taking, like, a psychology class, maybe taking philosophy, but I think there must have been something on one of the pamphlets that caught my eye about art. Like, there had to have been something because I don’t know what attracted me to that one over all the other ones. But I I signed up for that one, and I went. And I actually remember I almost missed the bus to go because I was so hungover from the night before. Like, that was what yeah. That was, like, where I was at in my life. I was just a party girl who had lost my my art soul. And I ended up still going on this, and I just remember feeling, like, absolute crap in the car, driving down with all these strangers, didn’t know where I was going.

Darcy Wade [00:41:51]:
We were going to this tiny town in Georgia. And halfway through, I’m like, what did I just sign up to do? But we get there. And the first day we’re there, I just, like after maybe I think halfway through the day and hearing some of the kids’ stories and exploring just the reality that a lot of these kids were living in, that they grew up literally being abused or they were abandoned or just like all these intense things. And I didn’t know how to speak to a lot of them. I didn’t know what to say. I was kind of in this, like, culture shock for a bit, but I remember I started drawing with 1 of the kids. It just came up, and it was like I instantly we were speaking the same language. And I yeah.

Darcy Wade [00:42:34]:
I just had this moment of, like and then they realized that I was an artist, and then immediately it’s like they softened up to me. Mhmm. And, I had to, like I remember having a a really big breakdown, like, having to kinda run away because I didn’t want them to see me crying, but something came through me so intensely where I was like, oh my gosh. There are people out there really struggling. Like, there are people out there who Wade given some really intense hands at this thing called life. And here I’ve been just partying and doing whatever. And, like, there are kids who, like, are are really in bad situations. And I was like, I just wanna keep doing art with them.

Darcy Wade [00:43:11]:
And the rest of my time there, I just was like I basically lived in the art room and just painted, and it was just this beautiful experience and made some great connections to where I got asked to come back over the summer and be an intern art teacher for them. Wow. And yeah. And, like so that literally like, I went lit not knowing a single thing about any of this, and that was when I realized, like, there’s something to this art thing. There’s something to creativity that is deeper than just me making pretty pictures. And Oh, yeah.

Nancy Norbeck [00:43:41]:
Yeah.

Darcy Wade [00:43:41]:
And so from there, that’s kind of that was, like, the seed that got planted that I just surrendered and allowed myself to explore. And, you know, it wasn’t a perfect thing. Like, I still struggled with some of my own substance abuse for a while, but always what brought me out of it was tapping back into my art. And then now that’s sort of what I do is and and now I’m I’m sober. Like, I’m almost 5 months completely sober. I decided to just cut it all out of my life completely. And I I spend pretty much majority of my time just helping other people tap into their creative power because I know through my own experience that it heals and it saves and it gets you out of the dark. And, yeah, it it was an amazing experience, and it all just came from following this this push that I didn’t even know it was happening.

Darcy Wade [00:44:30]:
Mhmm.

Nancy Norbeck [00:44:31]:
Yeah. I think that probably happens a lot more than any of us realize because I think we, you know, we think that that’s a weird woo woo frou frou hippie thing and that it’s not that it’s either not really happening the way we think it is or that if we tell anybody about it, they’ll think we’re nuts. And so we don’t

Darcy Wade [00:44:51]:
I felt crazy. Talk about it.

Nancy Norbeck [00:44:53]:
Yeah.

Darcy Wade [00:44:55]:
Yeah. But but my experiences that have led me to this journey of, like, expressive arts and creativity and really tapping into that, When I speak them out loud, or at least when I did, I always felt like I sounded crazy.

Nancy Norbeck [00:45:07]:
Mhmm.

Darcy Wade [00:45:08]:
And now I kind of am like, I don’t care if I sound crazy or this all sounds really woo woo or hippie. Like, it it saved my life, and I know it’s saving other people’s lives because I’m I’m witnessing that. Like, I Right. I’ve seen that in therapy. So

Nancy Norbeck [00:45:24]:
Yeah. It’s just it’s amazing, amazing stuff.

Darcy Wade [00:45:27]:
Mhmm.

Nancy Norbeck [00:45:27]:
And it’s an amazing story. I mean, it’s a beautiful story. But but, yeah, I mean, just that one one simple random or seemingly random thing can make such a huge difference.

Darcy Wade [00:45:39]:
Yeah. And it can feel really awkward and uncomfortable. And, but, like, I always knew. And, like, I’ve tapped and this is what I love about tapping into your creative power is you’re tapping into your intuition. Like, when you create, you’re literally following your instincts. You’re following your intuition. Like, sure, you can you can, like, use references or, you know, base things off other inspirations. But for the most part, you’re that is one of the few things in her life that we are really given the control to just do whatever.

Darcy Wade [00:46:12]:
And I think the more that we heighten our own intuitive abilities, then we’re kinda able to listen to that little feeling or that little voice within that’s like this way or this way or this Wade. That’s kinda guiding you. And I knew that that little voice, that little feeling was what guided me to that experience in the first place. It was thankfully screaming loud enough for me to hear it, even though I was still blocked, But the, yeah, the more that I’ve, like, opened up to it, just those experiences keep happening. And it’s really neat seeing it happening for other people who have lost their own. I mean, I I now really relate expressive arts and creative healing with people struggling with substance abuse because that’s the example of people losing control and allowing forces to take over them. And and, you know, I’ve been there. The no judgment, I understand.

Darcy Wade [00:47:03]:
But, like, your creative force is you gaining your control back. And that’s just this beautiful, like, parallel that I really stand behind and I value.

Nancy Norbeck [00:47:13]:
That is that is an idea that I have to admit I’ve never heard put into words before, so I’ve never really thought about it that your creativity is is get getting your control back, and yet wow. Because I I’m just sitting here thinking, you know, it’s like it’s like and this is it feels like such a cliche, and it so isn’t. The idea of, like, getting back to who you were when you were a kid, but when you were a little kid, nobody had told you yet that that stuff was bad or wrong or not good enough or whatever. Or if they had started to, you didn’t believe it yet. And though I have realized now that I have little nephews that they start believing it a whole lot sooner than you think. And and, yeah, I mean, that’s the thing. You know, we assume that kids don’t understand, and kids don’t really hear things, and they don’t take things in. Oh, yes.

Nancy Norbeck [00:47:58]:
They do. They do. They they absolutely do when you watch a 6 year old getting himself into a perfectionistic, not because the thing that he’s drawing isn’t as perfect as the thing that he’s looking at. You know? I mean, I I watched my nephew do that, like, a year and a half ago, and I just was like, oh, no. No. No. No. Don’t do this to yourself.

Nancy Norbeck [00:48:17]:
Please don’t do this to yourself. And, you know, how do you explain that to a 6 year old? Exactly. You know? I mean, it’s it’s so hard, but I thought, oh, boy. Some somebody’s already gotten into your head the idea that perfect exists.

Darcy Wade [00:48:30]:
Yeah.

Nancy Norbeck [00:48:30]:
And that you have to reach it and, oh, please don’t. You know? Just just be your awesome 6 year old self and and do that. But but you know what I’m also as you’re talking about intuition, I mean, I think intuition is so powerful, but to a lot of people, it also falls into that intuition is so powerful, but to a lot of people, it also falls into that crazy woo woo hippie category. And it’s and it doesn’t it doesn’t have to be, you know, like, you know, somebody getting hit by a lightning bolt. I mean, it’s really just listening to yourself and the things that you know, and family, your job, your teacher, your boss, your whoever, thinks that you should go in. And and that’s why it’s so hard to hear it is that we have all of these competing forces that are telling us, no, no, no, no, no. You shouldn’t do that. You should do this other Wade, stable thing because they think that art is not safe and stable, you know, or or whatever whatever their objection And it does become really hard to hear it after a while.

Nancy Norbeck [00:49:27]:
And I think a lot of us just have no clue how to even do that. Absolutely. And that all plays back into

Darcy Wade [00:49:38]:
why I value the nature component. And you even brought this up for the soul collage. Like, there’s a lot of components of meditation and ritual. And and I say this all being very aware that a lot of these derive from, you know, cultures and, you know, individuals of different races and backgrounds. And so, like, one thing with expressive arts is we really do try to pay respect to the origins and know that a lot of these come from different cultures. Mhmm. But it’s like it’s it’s I know that my life has changed from just adding meditation, adding that little bit of space into my life because it allows me to let go of all the external influences, and just go within and go deeper and be able to connect with a higher energy. And, I I value that as being an artist too because it’s really it’s really hard to constantly always all be in our heads and to be, like, affected by so many things going on.

Darcy Wade [00:50:46]:
It’s it’s we’re having a hard time now discerning what’s even true or false. Like, our news our news isn’t even helping anymore. It’s making it harder. And so you have to be able to tap in and follow your own instincts, and it all directly relates to these moments of stillness and presence and creativity. And that’s why I consider it all a superpower. And being able to heighten that helps build your resiliency, helps gain control, which it’s it’s a lot deeper than just this hippie woo stuff. Like, that is your life. Like, that’s your your own ability to make your own decisions and make your own actions and be your own, be your own guide.

Darcy Wade [00:51:28]:
And that’s really the big thing, like, when you were asking earlier the difference between expressive arts and then adding in the therapy. A good therapist is someone who’s helping their clients be able to gain control back over their lives.

Nancy Norbeck [00:51:42]:
Mhmm.

Darcy Wade [00:51:43]:
To be able to make their own decisions, to be able to make their own choices, to be able to make safe decisions and choices by having the confidence and the self love and self compassion and the self awareness to make healthy decisions for themselves and have that control. And so all this plays into, yeah, just we’re all here to support each other. We’re all here to support ourselves, and creativity and nature are very I think everyone has access to them. What we’ve somewhere in the line, we’ve all been told, like, you’re not creative or you’re not good enough or, like, you know, that you have to be in your you have to be working 247 to be successful in life. Like, you can’t go out in the woods. Like, that’s not that’s a waste of time. It’s like, there’s a time for both. It’s balance.

Nancy Norbeck [00:52:30]:
Mhmm. So Yeah. So I wanna make sure that we actually talk about the art that you do now, and and I’m curious to know how you know, once you had that that breakthrough that got you back into art, you said you you basically lived in the art room. But were you also did you start doing your own art on the side, or did it take you a little while? Or how did that work for you?

Darcy Wade [00:52:54]:
So I started getting really into live painting. When I, like, first kinda had that awakening in undergrad where I realized, okay, this, I’ve had, like, 2 I’d say 2 big awakenings where I was kinda battling this good versus evil where it was kind of like the the art, the the light, the the health, the all that stuff that you consider to be, like, the good, I’d say. I hate saying good or bad, but in this case, I’ll just sum summarize it to good, was just trying to get me to come back in. But I was so, I was a victim to, you know, a lot of dark energies and a lot of Darcy, like, I you know, I was really trapped with substance and with low self compass low self confidence, low self esteem, all that stuff. But when I decided, like, okay. This is now affecting my life. Like, I don’t wanna get in trouble. I don’t wanna, like, go down this path.

Darcy Wade [00:53:50]:
I started live painting. Like, it just kinda was something I discovered. I had a lot of friends who were musicians, and I loved going to their shows, but I started realizing that if I was there without a purpose, that’s when I would start drinking more. That’s when I would get into, you know, trouble with, like, other situations. And so I still wanted to be a part of the group. I still wanted to be out, but I wanted a purpose. And I loved art, but I didn’t really I grew up way too extroverted to be a true artist. I always said that.

Darcy Wade [00:54:21]:
Like, I I had a hard time staying in because I became really social, but live art and being able to be in the group and paint while my friends were playing their music was this really great happy middle ground. And it allowed me it was, like, kind of my first experience being expressive with my art because I was painting with other people watching, and then I had to really, you know, trust myself and not listen to other people’s judgment and and know that this was my experience I was having. And just because someone was watching and maybe I did something and and you can kinda feel, like, if you are an artist and you’re painting and someone’s watching, you can kinda tell if they’re like like, oh, that that looks good or bad. But I kinda just had to, like, let that go and just go with it. And so that was when I first started getting back into my own art. And then, I was, you know, I I’m graduated from grad or from undergrad, and then I moved to Asheville, North Carolina, which is a very artistic creative place. But I was bartending, and so I kinda was still battling this good versus evil of, like, being around a lot of substance, but also still being in a really creative town. And I kind of hit this other block where I didn’t really know what I was doing.

Darcy Wade [00:55:36]:
And, my this is where my dad really came in, and he was like, you know, you really you hit on something with your undergrad with this whole creative art thing. Like, there was a program for expressive arts at Appstate again, but to get your masters. And my dad was like, why don’t you just apply? Why don’t you just see what happens? And I applied. And because I had this whole background of exploring creative art therapy on my own, the expressive arts department was like, okay. This this girl, whoever she is, really seems like she’s on this path. Like, I got accepted to grad school immediately and started working directly in the expressive arts department. And this is another thing where I was like, I don’t really know I’m doing. Like, I I still felt kinda like this crazy party girl.

Darcy Wade [00:56:23]:
Like, I I the whole thing, like, I had no idea what I was doing, but I just kept listening to any creative guidance that I got. And anytime it felt good, which usually related directly with, like, something with art or something with community, I just listened to it. So then I got into grad school, and that’s a whole other that was a very long journey at myself. But that’s when I started pairing my own art with, expressive arts. And I think I stopped doing my own art when I explored creative art or explored expressive arts, and that was, you know, a little confusing. Anytime I wasn’t doing my own creativity, I felt like an imposter. Mhmm. And, I finally decided that I was, I don’t know.

Darcy Wade [00:57:15]:
My cat just came in here. Basically I decided that as much as I could, you know, learn about expressive arts and explore all this, if I wasn’t creating myself, then I was not actually doing the deep work. And so I just have made it my own practice that I just am gonna draw and create as much as I can. And it doesn’t always have to be for show. It doesn’t always have to be for this big profound thing. I just wanna keep creating. And now it’s gotten me a lot of great opportunities, and, it’s just it’s just a very it it creativity is my life, basically.

Nancy Norbeck [00:57:54]:
As well it should be.

Darcy Wade [00:57:56]:
Yeah.

Nancy Norbeck [00:57:57]:
And and, you know, it’s interesting because as we’ve been talking, I’ve been, you know, remembering what your art looks like from your website, and it’s just I I feel like I can see the the whole expressive arts influence in it as you’ve been talking about it, especially the nature based thing. I mean, there’s there’s a lot of nature in what you paint. I love that you have paintings that are are the the 4 alchemical elements, and the ether one is

Darcy Wade [00:58:22]:
just amazing.

Nancy Norbeck [00:58:25]:
You know? So it’s it’s kinda like when I first looked at them, I just sort of went, wow. You know? Like like, that’s such a common reaction, and yet I didn’t have a better word. But there is that kind of energy of them that that just feels like it’s definitely been been infused by the other things that that you do and have experienced?

Darcy Wade [00:58:46]:
Well, and I think, you know, just to be transparent and and really own my own story, I struggled along with, you know, abusing substance and getting sucked into addiction. I struggled really bad with depression and anxiety for years. And before I even understood what either of those were and as someone who always had a very big social group and, always felt like I was this extroverted fun person, deep down, I felt really lost as many people do, and I felt really alone and confused and, like, I’m a very sensitive, empathetic person. And before I understood all that, I just always felt really weak. I felt really just low, and I really struggled with that. And so a lot of the arts kinda going back to, like, the specific imagery in my art, I kept finding myself wanting to create pictures that involved, like, natural elements. Like, the elements got really big for me when I started feeling really, really depressed. And I could never figure out why.

Darcy Wade [00:59:54]:
I found myself painting lotus flowers a lot. I found myself painting the phases of the moon a lot. I found myself painting butterflies a lot. Like and these all sound very generic and very, like, oh, well, they’re simple. Everyone loves these. But I kept feeling like there’s something to this. And, I realized that all these are symbols of extreme transformation and extreme, like, balancing the different parts of ourselves. Like, the elements have just always I’ve known it to be true that the elements represent our emotions and how like, you take fire, for example.

Darcy Wade [01:00:32]:
Fire

Nancy Norbeck [01:00:33]:
can

Darcy Wade [01:00:33]:
be both really, really, really healing and helpful and then very destructive. Right. And, and I always consider fire to be sort of the element that relates to, like, passion and, you know, the fiery element, which when it’s when you’re aligned with it and it’s in balance, like, that’s motivation. That’s love. That’s joy. That’s all that. That’s really what gets you up in the morning. But when it’s out of balance or really extreme, that’s anger.

Darcy Wade [01:00:58]:
That’s rage. That’s all of that. And with fire, like, fire can both keep you warm and help you cook and help you survive. I mean, this obviously is very inspired by my experience in wilderness therapy. But the other side, fire can destroy a whole entire forest. And I just I use a lot of, like, natural elements that really symbolize to me respecting the dualities of light and dark, of suffering and healing because we are humans and there is that flow. It’s neither it’s not always perfect, but it it doesn’t always have to be really depressing. And when I started really getting those thoughts out of my head and painting them, that was when my own journey out of depression really helped or really got I really got out of depression through doing that.

Nancy Norbeck [01:01:47]:
That’s amazing.

Darcy Wade [01:01:49]:
Yeah. And it’s it is like you can probably even tell in my voice. Like, it’s hard to talk about this stuff. Like, it’s never easy. And even as someone who has been a therapist for other people and who has helped lead people, words are still hard. And that’s where I really love being able to offer someone something besides words to share their story and to open up because it you can communicate in all kind of Wade, and, it’s hard to talk about a lot of stuff for sure.

Nancy Norbeck [01:02:17]:
Yeah. Definitely. And I I always feel whenever whenever we land in to the the depression and creativity territory, I feel like I need to point out that we are not saying that painting will cure your depression all on its own. You know?

Darcy Wade [01:02:31]:
Very yeah.

Nancy Norbeck [01:02:33]:
And it and it always reminds me of my one of my favorite Brene Brown quotes about how unused creativity metastasizes into ugly things. And Yes. You know, we’ve I’ve been thinking about this, but that the whole time because I feel like this this story is such a great example of how true that is. Yeah. So

Darcy Wade [01:02:49]:
yeah. And that and and, yes, thank you for the reminder. It’s true. Like, I was doing a lot of other things. Like, I I was seeing a therapist twice a week. Like, I, you know, I I’ve I’ve explored my own experiences with medication. I’ve also had a lot of support systems, and it’s not you don’t just do art and become you get out of depression, or you don’t just, like, start going to meditation classes. Like, there’s a combination of a lot of things, and you really do need to seek out professional resources and seek out, things that work for you.

Darcy Wade [01:03:24]:
But just knowing that options are out there is really nice. And I think a lot of times people do forget that their creativity can be one of those resources for healing because it creativity I I’m just of big faith and hope that everyone who’s ever felt that their self esteem got lowered because they tried to attempt creativity, that doesn’t always have to be the story you operate under. And I I feel so terrible for anyone who ever was told they weren’t, like, good enough because they couldn’t draw well or something like that. Yeah. That’s that’s what we’re trying to get. Like, we’re trying to reframe and change that story.

Nancy Norbeck [01:04:02]:
Yeah. It wasn’t the the creative effort itself that lowered your self esteem. It was how other people reacted to it. You’re right. Feels good to you to do it even if you never show it to anybody else. It’s worth doing. Mhmm.

Darcy Wade [01:04:15]:
Exactly. And that’s such a great metaphor for so many bigger things in life of just listening to what feels good for you in a safe context. Yes.

Nancy Norbeck [01:04:23]:
Within reason.

Darcy Wade [01:04:24]:
Within reason. Yeah. And it was a great time to explore that with, like, creative outlets. Like, just get up and dance or just, like, sing, and don’t worry about how it looks or anything. Just, like, focus on how it feels.

Nancy Norbeck [01:04:38]:
Yeah. That would be Darcy like no one’s watching.

Darcy Wade [01:04:41]:
I’ve been tab I’ve been getting back into dance myself, and I’m I’ve never considered myself a dancer. Like I said, I’ve always been a very 2 d artist, but getting into a different type of creative expression has been life changing for me. Like, I love dancing, and I think it’s really good to do things that are a little out of your comfort zone because it’s working different sides of your neurological system. It’s helping your nervous system tap into other resources. So

Nancy Norbeck [01:05:08]:
So there you go. Go do your thing.

Darcy Wade [01:05:10]:
I feel like I’ve been

Nancy Norbeck [01:05:11]:
saying that a lot lately.

Darcy Wade [01:05:13]:
Good. I love it.

Nancy Norbeck [01:05:14]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think

Darcy Wade [01:05:14]:
we need to say it more.

Nancy Norbeck [01:05:15]:
I don’t think it ever gets old. Go do your thing. Yeah. Don’t worry about it. Dance like no one’s watching, or make sure no one’s watching except maybe your cat. And if your cat gives you a funny look, give it one back. I mean,

Darcy Wade [01:05:24]:
I usually they usually make my cat dance with me.

Nancy Norbeck [01:05:28]:
I bet your cat loves that.

Darcy Wade [01:05:31]:
Oh, yeah. He’s yes. He’s gotten really used. He’s like, whatever, mom. Like, you’re just over there dancing and doing your thing. Have fun.

Nancy Norbeck [01:05:40]:
See, that’s that’s the only kind of commentary you should get is the cat lifting its head and going, uh-huh, and then going about its business.

Darcy Wade [01:05:48]:
Because it’s like, at the end of the day, all this can sound really abstract, but it’s all just about enjoying life and having fun and feeling safe enough to win those deep scary things come up. Like, you you have the container to talk about it or to express it.

Nancy Norbeck [01:06:04]:
I feel like we have to stop now because you’ve just said the perfect thing to end on Absolutely. Encapsulate all of this. So I’m I’m so glad that we talked today. This has been such a a deep amazing conversation. Thank you so much.

Darcy Wade [01:06:19]:
Yes. Thank you so much. I really appreciate what you’re doing and, offering just a space for people to talk about this. So thank you.

Nancy Norbeck [01:06:26]:
You’re very welcome. That’s it for this week. I’m so very grateful to Darcy Wade for sharing her story with us. Be sure to check out the show notes for all the links and especially to see her stunning art. If you were moved by this episode, please share it with a friend. Thanks. You can find show notes, the 6 creative beliefs that are screwing you up, and more at fycuriosity.com. I’d also love for you to join the conversation on Instagram.

Nancy Norbeck [01:06:53]:
You’ll find me @fycuriosity. Follow Your Curiosity is produced by me, Nancy Norbeck, with music by Joseph McDade. If you like Follow Your Curiosity, please subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And don’t forget to tell your friends. It really helps me reach new listeners. See you next time.