Quitting Is Not an Option with Orrin Evans

Over the last two episodes, we’ve heard from Todd Evans and Rachel Marianno, a brother and sister who grew up in an unusually artistic home and both became artists themselves. This week, their younger brother Orrin Evans joins me to round out the family and talk about his experience as the much younger child was similar and different, and how it influenced his career as a renowned jazz pianist and leader of the Grammy-nominated Captain Black Big Band.

We talk about how he decided to leave college to pursue his career in music (and how his parents managed to walk the fine line of being supportive parents), how limiting his options forced Orrin to find ways to be successful—never more true than during the coronavirus pandemic—how the record industry has changed just over the last few decades, how the opportunity to visit other countries has changed him as a person, and a whole lot more.

If your kid comes home and says “Hey, I’m going to law school,” no one’s gonna say, “What are you going to fall back on?” Right? If your kid comes home and says, “I’m going to med school,” no one’s gonna say, “Well, what are you gonna fall back on?” “I’m going to major in engineering,” no one says that. But the minute you say you’re gonna do something involving the arts, they say, “What do you want to fall back on?”

Orrin Evans

Show links

Orrin’s website

Orrin’s Facebook page

Orrin’s YouTube

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Transcript

Please note: This is an unedited transcript, provided as a courtesy, and reflects the actual conversation as closely as possible. Please forgive any typographical or grammatical errors.

Nancy Norbeck [00:00:07]:
Hello, and welcome to Follow Your Curiosity, where we explore the ups and downs of the creative process and how to keep it moving. I’m your host, Nancy Norbeck. I am a writer, singer, improv comedy newbie, science fiction geek, and creativity coach who loves helping right brained folks get unstuck. I am so excited to be coming to you with interviews and coaching calls to show you the depth and breadth both of creative pursuits and creative people to give you some insight into their experiences and to inspire you. Over the last two episodes, we’ve heard from Todd Evans and Rachel Mariano, a brother and sister unusually artistic home and both became artists themselves. Today, their younger brother, Orrin Evans, joins me to round out the family and talk about his experience as the much younger child, how it was similar and different, and how it influenced his career as a renowned jazz pianist and leader of the Grammy nominated Captain Black Big Band. We talk about how he decided to leave college to pursue his career in music and how his parents managed to walk the fine line of being supportive, how limiting his options forced Orrin to find ways to be successful, never more true than during the coronavirus pandemic, how the record industry has changed just over the last few decades, and how the opportunity to visit other countries has changed him as a person. I really think you’ll enjoy my conversation with Orrin Evans.

Nancy Norbeck [00:01:35]:
Well, thank you for making time to talk to me today. Thank you. Thank you. So as as we’ve already talked about, I’ve talked to your brother, Todd, and your sister, Rachel. And so I’m especially curious to talk to you because I’m fascinated by the idea of 3 totally different creative journeys that all started in the same house.

Orrin Evans [00:01:59]:
Yep.

Nancy Norbeck [00:02:00]:
And I’m I’m curious to know what it was like for you to grow up in the same space, you know, with with your dad being a playwright and your mom being a musician and then, you know, what Todd and Rachel were up to as well? Because you’re the youngest. Right?

Orrin Evans [00:02:17]:
Yes.

Nancy Norbeck [00:02:18]:
Okay.

Orrin Evans [00:02:21]:
Honestly, you know you know, you start thinking about what I say because I am the youngest, and I don’t wanna don’t wanna hear from my brother and sister’s mouth. I’m being real. It’s like Yeah.

Nancy Norbeck [00:02:38]:
We’re not here to get you in trouble with them.

Orrin Evans [00:02:40]:
I know. You know? There’s things I would say that I won’t say because it’s in a but what I will say is that we, I didn’t realize until a later a later point that that what really makes us special is that we all grew up in a in a different household. Mhmm. Same parents, but because of the you know, you’re talking 5 years pretty much. My brother, 1965, my sister, 1968. But, even though that’s not a 5 year gap, like, my sister and I was 6 almost 7 between my sister and I. But that’s a different household because my my sister is is a is a girl.

Nancy Norbeck [00:03:23]:
Right.

Orrin Evans [00:03:23]:
That’s a well, that was a whole different the only girl. So she grew up in her what she saw was different even than what my mother saw. And then by the time I came along, my parents got divorced when I was, well, basically around 8. So where my brother and sister had a a how graduated high school, went to college with that family. Mhmm. I I had a different family. I’m the only one that also didn’t didn’t go to college from our family house. By the time I went to college, I had lived in 3 different households.

Nancy Norbeck [00:04:00]:
Oh, wow.

Orrin Evans [00:04:02]:
3 different places, not 3. Well, in a way, 3 different households. So our experience, you know, is different as far as the house. Mhmm. But what also shows is how, strong my parents were. But we all we all had the same parents no matter what. They’re extremely supportive parents that came, to anything we did, you know, and and supported what we did. I mean, you know, we basically all grew up going to my my father’s place and and then going to my mother’s concerts.

Orrin Evans [00:04:39]:
So we didn’t really I mean, honestly, I didn’t know anything was special, you know, until oh, I thought that’s what you did. It’s it’s Saturday. You go you go see your dad’s play.

Nancy Norbeck [00:04:48]:
Right.

Orrin Evans [00:04:48]:
You know? And I didn’t realize until later that, you know, some other people didn’t, you know, didn’t have it on even my friends on the block, they didn’t have, parents that were teachers, you know, or I just thought we all grew up on the same block. You know, our parents went to work and came home. But I guess later in, you know, life when I realized, oh, wow. We had, like, cab not cabarets, but, little shows in the house where my mother would invite singers over and to be a piano player and, You know? So I grew up in in that, and I I you know? And even as time moved on, my mother still did I mean, she would do things like she would do things like, you know, which I still try to do with my friends. I love dinner on Valentine’s Day and decorate the house and invite people over. You know? So all of that just seemed like things you you do, you know? And and I I didn’t realize it was special until a later point in in my life. And and as you know, I think I think you can I really think the arts are a choice? You know? I I and, because it’s it’s not a it’s not an easy path, like other things too. But I think the fact that my mother and father were artists, very important to us, and into to who we became.

Orrin Evans [00:06:13]:
But I also think that it was just in us, you know, all 3 of them to perform. You know, that’s something and and it just so happened that our parents were performers, you know, because we all have kids, you know, and I don’t know if all of our kids are, you know I hate to say, you know, I see those artists who grab their kids and throw them on the stage and, like, go ahead. Do it too. And it’s like, they don’t wanna do it. It’s not something that you automatically do just because your parents

Nancy Norbeck [00:06:43]:
Right.

Orrin Evans [00:06:46]:
The love for it or the respect for it may really have something to do with who they were. You know? The the I still watch certain movies right now because, you know, I watched them with them growing up, and I know the actors and and and different things like that. And so I that love for the arts and even going to poetry readings, and I think that was definitely instilled in in through us, with our parents. But the desire to do it is something that’s pretty much in all of us, and and it awakes. You know? And and sometimes you’re like, you know, I’m gonna focus on this over here, but it’s all in there and it pops up.

Nancy Norbeck [00:07:28]:
Yeah. And I think, you know, from from different people that I’ve spoken with, it it makes such a huge difference if you are the kind of person who wants to perform or wants to be an artist of any capacity performing or not, when your parents actually have experience with that and and encourage it rather than saying that’s frivolous. That’s a waste of your time. You should go be an engineer, you know, or a plumber or whatever. It it just it seems to and it and it makes sense. I mean, right on its face, it makes sense that it it would help to grow up in an environment like that where, yes, you wanna learn to play the piano? Your parents will drive you to the piano lesson even if it’s an hour away because they think it’s important that you do this as opposed to the people who say, what are you doing? So

Orrin Evans [00:08:15]:
Well, I’m I you know, this is why I’m I’m talking to the youngest last. I’m a be I’m a be real. My mother wanted me to my mother was not for singing. It’s great, but there was a point where my mother didn’t want me to do this, honestly. You know? And my wife can attest to that. And because it is a hard road, and she you know, her 20 19 year old son leaves the house and says, I’m gonna go play jazz. You know? And and then my father, because he had to hear my mother, at a certain point, was like, alright, son. You know, right before actually, the month before he passed, I got my full time teaching gig.

Nancy Norbeck [00:08:57]:
Mhmm.

Orrin Evans [00:08:58]:
And I taught school for 3 years at Germantown Friends. I I really at that point, I didn’t wanna, you know, I really I I was touring the world. I didn’t wanna teach school.

Nancy Norbeck [00:09:06]:
Mhmm.

Orrin Evans [00:09:07]:
But I I will never forget one of my last phone calls, might even one of my last phone calls with my father, how happy was that because I had 2 kids, a wife. I was gonna have that, quote, unquote, stability at that point. And my mother too, you know? And and I did it for 3 years, and I understand as a parent that the artist in them, that was the parent in them that was like, hey. You know, you might wanna do this. You got 2 kids and a wife now. You might wanna you could do this. Why don’t you because I I left college to go on the road. Why don’t you go back and get your degree? You can do this.

Orrin Evans [00:09:45]:
You can do this. And and and I’m not trying to paint it as if they weren’t supportive.

Nancy Norbeck [00:09:50]:
-Right.

Orrin Evans [00:09:50]:
-But they were parents. -Mm -Parents. And to me doing this full time for the past almost 25 years now and and raising a family and doing this, I had to fight through everybody, not just, you know, I had to because I had to fight, you know. And and when I say final mean arguing, but I had to, you know, I had to say, this is what I wanna do, you know, and those moments when even right now, even right now, this is, you know, I’m I feel like I’m back, you know, almost 25 years ago with my mother saying, well, hey. You could do this because, hey. This is I’m right smack. There’s no, you know, unemployment for a self employed person in in PA. It’s not jumping.

Orrin Evans [00:10:38]:
It’s not now. So, you know, I’m like, okay. When is my next gig? I have no idea. My next gig may not be till the fall when they’re able. No. So when they’re able, no one’s even if I wanted to say, which I don’t do normally, but if I wanted to say I’m gonna go do some weddings. You know? No one’s getting married this summer, so I’m not gonna be able to play.

Nancy Norbeck [00:10:59]:
Yeah. They’re all getting married on Zoom.

Orrin Evans [00:11:01]:
Yeah. You know? No. So so, anyway, all that to say, I I know I understand their concern because I’m a father. My son is my youngest my oldest is 27, and, you know, basically, right now, I told him to quit his job because he was installing, in, security systems. And I said, man, you’re going out of these houses. This is scary. You know? And and so now I’m trying to help him and help my youngest who graduates college Saturday. Wow.

Nancy Norbeck [00:11:32]:
Saturday.

Orrin Evans [00:11:33]:
So the whole point is I understand, and they both picked things that aren’t traditional. You know? My youngest son decides to be a go for music production, you know, in the middle you know, and then graduate in the middle of a pandemic.

Nancy Norbeck [00:11:50]:
Yeah.

Orrin Evans [00:11:51]:
And my oldest son just got out of the navy. So and and go let now let’s go find a new job in the middle of a pandemic. You know? So Yeah. I I guess I say all that to say they were extremely supportive, but they were also parents. Yeah.

Nancy Norbeck [00:12:09]:
So how did that because that’s an interesting line to walk for them, but it must have been interesting for you because I mean, did it seem at all like they were giving you mixed messages? Or was it you know, did the fact that you knew that they were being supportive and they were just looking out for you not present that kind of internal conflict when you heard what they were saying?

Orrin Evans [00:12:30]:
I don’t I don’t think they were giving mixed messages at all. They I just think they weren’t There was no way for them to know how I was going to make money doing what I was gonna do. Mhmm. There was no way for them to know that because even though my father, you know, was a big jazz fan and, friends with a lot of jazz musicians, the concept of getting on a plane, going to another country, going to like, how do you get paid? How does that work? A lot of people understand that concept. And even though my father was, you know, known as a playwright and and around the the world pretty much, he also and and thank God because he set up a a path for my brother, sister, and I, but he also was a college professor. Mhmm. It’s a total different it’s not it’s not it’s not the exact same of, like, I’m traveling the world just doing my art. He had that cushion, and and I thank God for that cushion because that cushion is what helped me to continue doing, what I’m doing, you know, when he passed away.

Orrin Evans [00:13:39]:
We definitely helped my brother, sister, and I out to to keep doing what we were doing.

Nancy Norbeck [00:13:44]:
Mhmm.

Orrin Evans [00:13:44]:
But I I think what they they just weren’t aware of I mean, and I’m I’m in the same boat now because I’m like, what are you gonna do to my youngest son with the music? What does that mean? What does music because to me, you get a gig, you get a job, you go play, somebody pays you at the end of the night, they pay for your ticket, they pay for you. Like, all of that is what I’m thinking. So what are you going to do? How does that work? And I don’t know how that works. So So I know it works because I know some famous music producers.

Nancy Norbeck [00:14:15]:
Mhmm.

Orrin Evans [00:14:15]:
But I’m not you know, I don’t know how that works. So the fear is probably as a parent, is different than me, and and it’s very similar to what my parents the same fear they had because they they weren’t aware.

Nancy Norbeck [00:14:29]:
There are 2 questions that are popping into my head simultaneously, and I’m just gonna put them both out here and we’ll we’ll go with the the first one first, I think. I’m I’m curious to know, you know, you mentioned your your father knew all of these jazz musicians, if that’s how you discovered jazz in the 1st place or discovered that you loved it. And I also am curious to know what it was that made you decide that you were gonna leave college and and go do this. So I don’t know to what degree they may overlap or not, but you can take one at a time.

Orrin Evans [00:15:00]:
The seed was planted by my father. You know? And and that may that was basically one of the rules I you know, my family still deal still struggles with this rule, but my rule was if you’re behind the wheel, you you control the radio. And and that was my and my dad also because he drove a stick. My wife still makes me nervous. The other rule was don’t reach for stuff in the car, like, because you might hit the stick. And I know my wife isn’t gonna do it, but she still does it. It’s like, oh. She’s reaching all of them.

Orrin Evans [00:15:32]:
I’m like, just it’s just something I was like, don’t reach over here

Nancy Norbeck [00:15:36]:
Right.

Orrin Evans [00:15:36]:
When I’m driving. But so as far as the radio, that that seed, you know, was planted in all of us because we listened to what he listened to, whether we were driving a 15 minute drive or and and and I love that. I love that because it it exposed me to a pile of music. You know? There’s things I don’t even I I didn’t even know were in there, and I said, oh, this we should listen to this on the way to the grocery store, whatever it could it is. But now everybody you know, when I started seeing everyone put their headphones on, the first thing they get in the car, you know, where kids got the they have their iPads and they’re doing their own thing, then I I that’s one of the problems that I I think is going on with the music now with and not just jazz, but just exposing kids to other other than the music they’re listening to because they have way they have a choice. Why do you have a choice? Like, you’re in the car, dad or mom is driving, you listen to what they listen to, you know, and you and you shut up. You have a book, you have Mad Libs, you have a crossword puzzle, any of that. So that that time growing up, I didn’t really have a choice.

Orrin Evans [00:16:50]:
So that seed was in there for all all of us. You know? And and and, actually but even a bigger musical influence, was my brother. My brother, he blasted music when I say, like, he would close the door and act like that was a sound barrier, which it wasn’t. So and him and our dog would be in the room. You know? And and when I’m you know, my brother is 10 years older than me. So when you’re 5 and he’s 15 Mhmm. You know, I mean, I didn’t wouldn’t have Steely Dan, I would have known nothing about. You know, Doobie Brothers, nothing about.

Orrin Evans [00:17:22]:
You know? So I was getting that from my brother and then getting in the car and getting it from my father, which and if you listen to it again, what I just said, I got it because I didn’t have a choice. I couldn’t turn my brother’s music down. Right. You know? I couldn’t we and and just as a, like, I see the new parents sometimes, we’re giving the kids way too many choices instead of just saying, check this out. Like, I don’t care. Check this out. You’ll check this out. You know, you may not be in the Miles Davis right now, but trust me.

Orrin Evans [00:17:54]:
If I play this Miles Davis in the car enough now, when you’re older and you you have your your iPad will have some variety. You know?

Nancy Norbeck [00:18:03]:
Yeah.

Orrin Evans [00:18:04]:
So as as far as as music per se and where the influence came from, with those two things, not having a choice, being in the car with my dad, being in the car with my I’m I’m being in the house with my and the car with my brother. I didn’t listen to much music when my brother was driving because I was scared to death. He drove really fast. I did when he was home. But then when we moved, my when my mother and I moved to Philadelphia, we moved in with my uncle. And my uncle, was a famous jazz saxophonist from right here in Philadelphia. But not not well, local, really well known saxophonist around here. By the name is l Ellsworth Gooding.

Orrin Evans [00:18:46]:
So I was into music because I but I didn’t really I wasn’t in love with music. Mhmm. You know? Music was some hip stuff. I could play the keyboard, play the piano a little bit, but I wasn’t in love with music at all. And I always look at this one moment in my life. My uncle, we moved in with my uncle. I think it was a Tuesday. It was it was Tuesday night.

Orrin Evans [00:19:15]:
I don’t know why I remember this, but it was then I do know why I remember, but it was a Tuesday night we moved in. And when we moved in, I said, where’s uncle Ellsworth to my mother. I remember whatever, 10 or 11. And she said, oh, he had a gig. You know, he was at a gig somewhere in I think it was Atlantic City or wherever he was. He wasn’t home. So uncle Elsner was my mother was the youngest of 16 and I’m the youngest of 3. So my parents were pretty they they were older when they had me.

Orrin Evans [00:19:48]:
Mhmm. You figure they’re older, and then my mother’s the youngest. So my uncle, when I move here’s this 11 year old moving in with this, my uncle might have been 70 at that point.

Nancy Norbeck [00:19:58]:
Wow. If

Orrin Evans [00:19:59]:
I go because my yeah. My uncle was, like, either late sixties or or already 70. And here’s and he was a bachelor. Mhmm. And then here’s his 11 year old moving in. So I was terrified. I mean, it was always wonderful to me, but I I was scared. I’m like, oh, man.

Orrin Evans [00:20:15]:
Here I am. And and the whole block that we moved on were all retired, either retired people who worked on the the the ships in the shipyard or retired when they were in the war. So and here’s this 11 year old on the block Yeah. You know, coming from a block in Trent, New Jersey that had nothing but kids. Mhmm. Kids. So I’m sit I remember sitting in front of the TV, like, sitting Indian style and didn’t wanna move when I heard his car pull up because I just didn’t wanna touch anything. I didn’t wanna move anything.

Orrin Evans [00:20:46]:
You know, I was like, do do do do do, and I’m just sitting there. And he walked in the door with, one of one of his friends, and he handed me his saxophone and said, hey. Take this to the room. That was the first thing he said to me. I grabbed the saxophone. I took it to the room. That was the last time he ever played saxophone. He found out he had brain cancer.

Orrin Evans [00:21:08]:
And from the the however and and then through through all that, he lost his teeth. So he never wanted to play. He never played again. He he was like, I’m not I never really asked him why. I was too young than to know why he didn’t play. But I do know when it when he lost his teeth, he didn’t wanna play the the learn another embouchure.

Nancy Norbeck [00:21:28]:
Right.

Orrin Evans [00:21:29]:
He he played the piano. I might have heard him play the piano a few times in the house, but I always look at it at that point as him passing the music on to me because when he handed me that saxophone and I took it to the room, my life was changing in so many ways. 1, moving to Philadelphia. 2, I’m moving in with my uncle. 3, he just handed me music, and I didn’t really realize it. And from that point on, it I went on to a school in Philadelphia and and the principal no. The music teacher there recommended a music school for me to go for middle school and high school. And I started going there and met other musicians.

Orrin Evans [00:22:09]:
So the bikes and and the dirt bikes and the big wheels were replaced by music. You know? I came from Trenton with nose with no subway system to now catch subway in Philly and meeting kids from other parts of the neighborhood. And so that was the first attraction to to music per se, and some good schools here in Philly, Gerhardt Academic Music School, Settlement Music School. And then when I graduated, I went to Rutgers University. And and my choice to go to Rutgers, honestly, straight up, you know, outside of Kenny Barron being the professor there, I could go to Rutgers chief because my dad was a professor in in state school, state school. And so I’m like, oh, and he used to teach at Rutgers. And it was a good program, but honestly, it was motivated by I couldn’t afford Manhattan School of Music or Kirkland Music. Let me go to Rutgers.

Orrin Evans [00:23:04]:
And at the time, I I got there and I just the 1st year was okay. I just there there really wasn’t as diverse as it became in the next couple years. But when I was there, it really wasn’t. Honestly, my undergrad, there were maybe 4 African Americans in the jazz department.

Nancy Norbeck [00:23:24]:
Mhmm. Wow.

Orrin Evans [00:23:27]:
-And one of them was actually an engineering major that were undergrads, so still in the music department. You know? So it was it wasn’t my, you know, Saturdays would come around and I’m, like, I’m on a campus that wasn’t a music campus. I didn’t really, you know, so I would drive back to Philly. I would always come back. And then one of those trips back to Philly, I went to a jazz club that would that had just opened called the Blue Moon, and I sat in. This is the 1st day I sat in, and the owner comes over to me and says, hey. Would you like to run our weekly jazz session and manage the club do the music management? I was 19 years old. I never told him that.

Orrin Evans [00:24:09]:
Mhmm. So then I started managing the club and booking weekly. So I was there 7 days a week, making a little bit of money for that time under the table, you know, my rent. Well, I didn’t have rent yet. I’m still in at Rutgers. But my rent, when I did get an apartment, was only 1 week of what I was making. So at that time how do you tell a 19 year old, hey, you should stay in school when you’ve already got a job doing exactly what you wanted to do? Granted, I wasn’t touring. Right.

Orrin Evans [00:24:42]:
But I would I had the opportunity to play music. I had an opportunity to learn from from some of the older musicians. I was like, I’m not you know? So I did that and then went to New York, and I left, Rutgers University. You know? And at times, you know, there there have been a few times when I’m like, oh, man. I should just stayed and knocked that out. But my life if I had stayed and knocked that out, my life would be totally different. I wouldn’t have met my wife. I wouldn’t wouldn’t have the family I have right now.

Orrin Evans [00:25:12]:
All of that would be totally different. But if I had stayed, I probably would be teaching during this this time, COVID, and I wouldn’t be as wary. But then I would have my wife. Like Right. Knows. And and I wouldn’t be the same person. So it all Definitely. It all works out in the long run.

Nancy Norbeck [00:25:28]:
So if you didn’t really start paying attention to music until that night with the saxophone, And then you got this gig when you were 19. How long had you been playing at that point? And when did you pick the piano? Was it pretty much right when when everything shifted, or did it take a little while?

Orrin Evans [00:25:48]:
Well, no. The piano was I was banging on the piano in in in Trenton. You know? I did. I just I wasn’t in love with it. You know? That’s I mean, if anything, I was in love with falling off my bike and and be a BMXer. You know, I actually last night, yesterday ordered this movie called Rad that I felt like I used to love. It was all about BMX. But it was a bootleg copy, and I got mad and turned it off.

Orrin Evans [00:26:14]:
So it’s like Amazon. But that was my love. You know? And and when I got to Philly, I was like, oh, man. I’m a do that too, but there were no kids on the block, you know. So it wasn’t so much that I then I started playing music. It was just, oh, okay. Well, now let me deal with this. This is fun.

Orrin Evans [00:26:34]:
You know, and get a little Casio keyboard with a drum pad on it. Mhmm. So it was really just continuing what if you call some of my friends that I grew up with in Trenton, they all would say, I remember you banging on the piano. And, you mean, it was I was I didn’t know per se what I was doing. Mhmm. But back then, I still don’t know what I’m doing. But to be honest, it was definitely something I had already been doing. And and then by the 6th grade, when I met that teacher, it just you know, more and more and more, I fell in love with jazz per se too.

Nancy Norbeck [00:27:05]:
Okay. Because that’s that’s incredible to be 19 and be handed an opportunity like that. I I can’t blame you for saying I’d rather do this than stay in school. I really can’t.

Orrin Evans [00:27:17]:
Right. Right. Oh, yeah. I mean, until the club closed, and I was like, now what?

Nancy Norbeck [00:27:21]:
Yeah.

Orrin Evans [00:27:23]:
But but, actually, by the time the club closed, I had already met my wife and moved to New York. So it all you know? And that’s that’s the struggle actually circling back. That’s the struggle as a parent that I’m you know, I have to remember, shoot, my wife at whatever, 20 said I’m moving to Europe. You know? And her parents was like, what? And she went to Europe, you know, to travel around Europe. And so as a parent now, I I understand, you know, I really do understand what my what my parents were going through at times. They were, as I said, extremely supportive, but there were times when they were, oh, man. Look. You know? Now you got now you got these 2 kids.

Orrin Evans [00:28:06]:
Now you got this. Now you got this. I’m like, yep. And now I gotta figure out a way to do it, doing this, and that that’s the key thing, just having a, and and this is something I didn’t realize, but the having a business plan point blank, whether you’re playing music, whether you’re an artist, or whether you’re opening a store, or whether you’re whatever you’re doing, it’s a business. This is a this is a business for me. So I had to sit down and figure out how am I gonna make, you know, and even with this new pandemic, not this pandemic we’re in, I had to figure that out. I had to say, okay, I still play music. So how do I figure out a way to eat? You know, just figuring it out and having a clear plan plan.

Nancy Norbeck [00:28:53]:
But and yet, I get the feeling that a lot of your experience was pretty much okay. So the club’s closed. How do I figure out how to make this work? Which sounds pretty seat of your pants improv to me in in many ways. Does that sound right to you?

Orrin Evans [00:29:10]:
Well, yes and no. There was always an even when I was still at the club, I was building, for lack of better words, my brand. Mhmm. And I was doing the goal the goal you know, somebody said somebody said something to me the other day. They were like, my top 5. You know? They were just talking about their top 5 and then of something. And then the other another person said, well, if you were on a desert island, what would you take? You know? What records would and I responded by saying I probably wouldn’t take any music if I was on a desert island and and never coming back because I don’t want anything to be the last thing I, you know, even John Coltrane’s Love Supreme. I don’t want that to be the last thing I hear.

Orrin Evans [00:29:55]:
I’d rather hear in my head the future of what music is gonna sound like, you know, because I wanna see that it’s it’s going somewhere. So I’ll just I’ll make up music in my head rather than be stuck with my 5 top five because top five means nothing else comes after this. Where’s the best, you know, cheesesteak in town? What’s the best for now? It’s for now until someone else comes along and figures out something else. So my point in saying that is when I was at the Blue Moon, that was for now. That was the name of the club, Blue Moon. So when I was there, I was already planning the next step. You know? I’m like, alright. Well, let me do these live records.

Orrin Evans [00:30:35]:
You know? So I was doing live records in the club. I was trying to promote myself and immediately I think the club closed in 96, and I did my first record that December, my first record on a on a label that is 96. So it the my point is I just kept trying to do something new even though I was at, you know, Blue Moon or whatever you do as far as music. You cannot look at it. I’m in a brand new band now, and the band’s been together for 20 years. I’m not looking you know, that’d be great if I’m in the band for 20 years. That that would be amazing. That would be great.

Orrin Evans [00:31:13]:
But I’m always planning as as if I may only be in it for 20 days. You know? And that doesn’t mean I’m not giving my all

Nancy Norbeck [00:31:22]:
Right.

Orrin Evans [00:31:23]:
To the band right now. It just means, hey. I mean, honestly, we’re we didn’t know we would be sitting home for 9 months right now.

Nancy Norbeck [00:31:30]:
Right.

Orrin Evans [00:31:31]:
So so it’s about just constantly planning, you know, whether I’m doing the the blue moon and then going to do this and do this, thinking about what the next step is gonna be. As an artist, you I mean, I that’s what I think you have to be doing. This is today. What are you thinking about for tomorrow? Mhmm. What is your plan for next year? Even though it’s even though we’re right here, what is your plan for next year? You know? And and leaving the option for the plan to change.

Nancy Norbeck [00:31:57]:
I think that’s key. You know, if you had if you had a plan for this year that said, you know, in in May, I’m gonna be doing this, and in July, I’m gonna be this, and then all of a sudden the pandemic comes and you weren’t able to shift

Orrin Evans [00:32:12]:
Yep.

Nancy Norbeck [00:32:13]:
That’s that’s deadly.

Orrin Evans [00:32:15]:
It is.

Nancy Norbeck [00:32:16]:
Yeah. It is. So how did that first record come about?

Orrin Evans [00:32:22]:
Well, my first record, I did on my own. And, there was a record that came out by Keith Jarrett called, Live at Deerhead Inn, which is, an inn that still exists up in the Poconos. And I heard that record, and I was like, wow, man. This is a great sounding record. I mean, outside of Keith Jarrett and Paul Motion and Gary Peacock, the musicians on it, I just love the vibe of the record. So that’s kinda where I fell in love with live records. Mhmm. And we called that engineer.

Orrin Evans [00:32:56]:
I looked on the back of the the record and found that engineer. And I said, hey, man, can you come record a live thing for me? And he did. Wow. You know? And and I scraped up all my little bit of money and and didn’t use that. I still I actually just listened to it not too long ago. I was 25 years old, but it’s fun to listen to. Mhmm. And I didn’t listen to it, but I grabbed the engineer and went to the studio and just recorded it again with with 3 people I had been playing with for a while.

Orrin Evans [00:33:40]:
You know? So 2 people. Sorry. 2 people I’ve been playing with and did my first trio record. So I did all of that on my own, put it out, you know, and then that same year or maybe a year and a half later, 2 people I’ve been playing with in Philly, John Twana and Tim Warfield, were recommending me for a label out of, out of the Netherlands.

Nancy Norbeck [00:34:01]:
Oh, wow.

Orrin Evans [00:34:02]:
Well, Crisscross, and they kept recommending me and recommending me. And then that 1st year, 96, December, I did my I did the first record the day after Christmas. So that was not and I stayed with that label for a few years. I mean, it was a label for up and coming artists. And I stayed with them for a few years. And then met a lot of people, and that was by the time I’ve I’ve been living in New York by that point.

Nancy Norbeck [00:34:27]:
Well and a lot of people think that once you get a record deal, it’s all smooth sailing, and you don’t have to worry about anything again. And yet it seems pretty clear to me that that’s not how you’ve looked at this and probably not actually the reality. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Orrin Evans [00:34:42]:
Well, the record business has totally changed in the last Well, that’s true. So, I mean, that there was a point when labels were giving out big advances and basically advances like here, here’s, you know, 10 whatever, $10, let’s say that, and that’s not even a big but let’s say, they gave you $10 and you put your record out for 5, then you have that, but you owe that money back to the label. So it’s not like and you have to do you have to make that money back in record sales or whatever. But at that point during that time, you could go and say, hey. I just made this. I’m gonna go buy my car. I’m gonna buy my house. I’m gonna put it in like, you could do that with that record company, Advance.

Orrin Evans [00:35:23]:
The record company, Advance, isn’t the same anymore. We’re we’re competing with the Internet. We’re competing with so many other things. I mean, now granted and I’m also playing the type of music that isn’t giving out those kind of record deals anymore, really, you know, where we make our money, and when I say we, I mean, people playing creative music and improvisational music is touring. We make our money touring and touring the world, which is why this pandemic is, is so deep, you know, because we can’t travel anymore. You know, most of most musicians, the most your biggest payday is spring or spring and summer. Summer has so many festival outside festivals. We all go to Europe, all of that.

Orrin Evans [00:36:06]:
So this is the 1st year that ever, I mean, ever, that I remember the whole summer being shut down. Mhmm. So that’s where you end up making money, and and and that’s why everybody’s thinking now and promoting records more and trying to sell their their their merchandise. Oh, I got t shirts because you have to think in a whole another kinda way now. You know? It’s not it’s not the same as as those record companies giving, those big advances. And if they were around, the real deal is you still should be playing in as if that advance doesn’t exist Point blank. You because what are you gonna do when that record? I’ve seen how many record companies fold. You know what I mean? And and you you you got that money.

Orrin Evans [00:36:53]:
You did it. Now that record’s over. What are you gonna do? Do you know how to put out a record on your own? Have you ever investigated what it means? You know, there’s so many artists that were babysat by record labels for most of their careers that now when the record company is changing in the dynamic, they have no idea how to put out a record on their own. So the key is just really in investigating and knowing what’s happening out there.

Nancy Norbeck [00:37:21]:
Wow. I mean, that makes sense to me, and yet there are so many pieces that it’s gotta be daunting for someone who’s just starting out when they figure out that, you know, no. It’s not. You get a deal and somebody takes care of everything for you. Even even if they were gonna take care of everything for you, it would be pretty stupid not to figure out how to handle it on your own. And and so I would have to think once the scope of that hits you, it’s gotta be a moment of, oh, boy. What am I doing?

Orrin Evans [00:37:53]:
Right. Right. Yep. I mean, it is. It is. I mean but then you you remind yourself what you’re doing. You just remind yourself. You know? I mean, it it I mean, this is one of the things where I try to limit.

Orrin Evans [00:38:12]:
And make man, this has gone full circle. I limit the options. You know? Once I decide this is what I’m gonna do, I have no option but to make this work, you know, and and and that’s, you know, I I said to my wife, there’s gonna be people that come out of this because there were people that came out of college, you know, after the 4 years and said, oh, I’m not being a musician. I went to a performing arts high school, and I can probably count how many people in my graduating class are still involved in the arts in any way. You know? So once you say to yourself, I have no option. This is what I’m going to do. The only option is success or the only option is eating and making sure everybody else in my household is taking care of that. Those are my options, but quitting is not an option.

Orrin Evans [00:39:01]:
So that means pandemic or not, quitting is not an option. That means record label or not, quitting is not an option. You know? And once you once you really say that to yourself, and that has helped me as far as my mental stability to wake up not only back when I was 20 and and and late twenties, it’s helped me this last 2 months to wake up and say, well, I got no option. Yeah. And and that’s pretty much how I look at it.

Nancy Norbeck [00:39:30]:
I remember hearing it was been a long time, so it’s possible that I’m misremembering parts of this. But I think the the story works even if I’m totally wrong. But I think it was an interview with George Clooney’s dad, Nick.

Orrin Evans [00:39:45]:
Mhmm.

Nancy Norbeck [00:39:46]:
And he was talking about the moment when George came to him and said, dad, I wanna act. And, of course, you know, his response as a parent was, don’t you think you should go learn how to do something else so, you know, you have a fallback position? And George’s response was, dad, if I have if I have a place to fall back, I’ll fall back. And that’s what your your comments reminding me of. You you know? If your option is, you know, there’s nowhere to go but where I wanna go, how do I make it work? I think you’re much more likely to figure that out.

Orrin Evans [00:40:19]:
Well, I mean, honest the other part is if if your kids come home if your kid comes home and says, hey. I’m going to law school. No one’s gonna say what you’re gonna fall back on.

Nancy Norbeck [00:40:30]:
Right.

Orrin Evans [00:40:30]:
If if your kid comes home and says, I’m going to med school, no one’s gonna say, well, what are you gonna fall back on? Or or whatever. I wanna be I’m going to major in engineering. No one says that. But the minute you say you’re gonna do something involving the arts, they say, what are you gonna fall back on? Mhmm. So I just I had to and I remember an interview with Eddie Murphy, the same exact thing. He was on Arsenio Hall, but I I was in college or maybe end of high school. And I remember the interview. And and and, Arsenio said, did you ever think about having a safety net? And at that time, I was having college counselors tell me I need to have high school counselors, but I need to have a safety net.

Orrin Evans [00:41:11]:
Everyone was telling me that, you know, you should do this even if the safety net was the difference between being a performing artist and a teaching artist. Mhmm. You know? Like, no one told me I had like, I wanted to be a performing artist. Oh, you should prepare this just in case. And I’m I’m like, no. I wanna do this. This is what I wanna do. And I remember watching that interview with Eddie Murphy and and thinking, man, he’s real.

Orrin Evans [00:41:36]:
That’s messed up because everyone was coming to me telling me I should have a safety net, and he’s like, no. This is what I wanted to do. And and I will tell you not having a safety net, quote, unquote, is what has kept me doing this. You know, there were many, many times. You know? I I I remember and and and a little bit of ego, you know, because it’s just, like, I you know, honestly, there were certain things I couldn’t do and I still can’t do because I feel like it would it would downplay my artistry. Mhmm. So it’s like, okay. Well, yeah, I can make a little bit of money doing this, but I’m not gonna drive Uber and somebody look at their phone and say, is this Orrin Evans? I have his record.

Orrin Evans [00:42:24]:
You know? Because people have taken Ubers to my house, and then when they got there, the Uber driver is like, oh, this is Zoran Evans’ house. I have his so I’m like, man, do y’all really no. Because then I’m also feeding I’m feeding that that dialogue that I was given as a kid. Mhmm. And everybody oh, I’m a musician. Oh, oh, are you Ubering now? Yeah. No. You know what I mean? So I have to really I had to figure out how I could survive with my art because that’s what I said I wanted to do.

Orrin Evans [00:42:57]:
You know?

Nancy Norbeck [00:42:58]:
I’m I’m gonna guess that at some point in doing that over the years, you’ve come up with something that really surprised you that you never expected or that you never expected to work. Are there are there things that have stood out like that? It was like, boy, this was like a last ditch effort or this was a crazy idea, and I thought it was just gonna bomb and it didn’t.

Orrin Evans [00:43:19]:
Teach in school. I mean, when I when I and and I being a music teacher from middle school and high school kids from 6 to 12th grade for 3 years. You know, I, and, and the main reason I did is because one, it was a job. And 2, it was tuition for my go to this great, you know, private school. And, and when I got in there, I said, how can I do this and still play my music? I still was able to tour. I brought other people in, I found a new way to teach so that it was different than the teachers I had, you know, so that I could more artist friendly teaching and less, you know, academia, you know, less of that and more artist friendly teaching. So I but I honestly went into it, like, you know, a year, you know, and I did 3 years, which doesn’t sound long, but it’s that’s long with that’s really that’s a long time when the road is yelling and screaming your name. Mhmm.

Orrin Evans [00:44:22]:
And, oh, I can’t go. You know? If someone I had a conversation with someone the other day, and they’re like, you should really look into this and they were just talking about something else I should do and I said, I can’t do that right now, you know. I made an effort and then I made a plan and I gotta stick to this plan to do this. You know? If worst come to worst, you know, no. Worst come to worst and price took 25 years later, I’m like, you know, and this is worse. If if the if if there has ever been a worse, this is worse. You know? But but I don’t know any other thing I’m gonna do. You know, this is what I’m going to do.

Orrin Evans [00:45:03]:
And and being okay with that took a while. It it and it still takes a while cause you still have, you know, if you’re at a dinner party or somewhere and someone says, what do you do? I’m a musician. And they don’t fully understand what that is. They’re like, oh, do you teach it? And then they ask you some other dumb questions to go along with it. You know, it’s just where they ask you, do you do you know, well, my uncle played and was like, okay. What’s your uncle? Oh, your uncle. Oh, okay. He was a hobbyist.

Orrin Evans [00:45:29]:
He he had an instrument. But and so now you have to sit there and have this weird conversation and you don’t have that with as an artist, you have those conversations that are just so uncomfortable sometimes because you’re like, no. That’s not me. But if you said, hey. I’m a doctor. What people say next is, woah. Hey. Tell me more about it.

Orrin Evans [00:45:49]:
Mhmm. But some reason or, like, what do you what kind of doctor? They they ask you more about what you do. When you say you’re an artist, they start to tell you what you do, and they wanna tell you about people they know. They do what you do, although it’s not the same thing that you do. My heart, you know, my wife is, even though I’m talking now, my wife is a little more talkative than I. So when we go to dinner parties, I I don’t even say what I do. When I taught school, I never talked about traveling, you know, because one, I was 20 something. So this this young African American boy had never been to Germany.

Orrin Evans [00:46:32]:
Dude, I had been to every freaking, I’ve been all over the world. But when I went to those parent teachers meetings and they’re like, oh, we’re going away for the summer. And, oh, yeah. I’ve been there. What? And then so I never I stopped talking. I just stopped talking. I was like, I don’t wanna convince you that I’ve been somewhere or that I’m probably there every time you’re there. So I don’t really there’s plenty of times I don’t talk about what I do to avoid those kind of conversations, you know? Yeah.

Orrin Evans [00:47:00]:
I

Nancy Norbeck [00:47:00]:
can blame you.

Orrin Evans [00:47:01]:
And it actually it’s actually translated over to my kids to the point that neither of my sons really talk about what I do. Sometimes I’m like, you ain’t telling you to tell him your dad was a musician? My junk is he’ll meet people, and and I was like, hey. I know him. Did you tell him who you are? Nope. Because he doesn’t even want like, I’ve had that same you know, and and it’s funny because I don’t I think my brother and sister talk about my parents more than I do, you know, because I used to, but then I got those same in the circles that I ran, I got those same dumb comments. You know? Like, I when I first moved to New York, I was living right down the street from the Billie Holiday Theater, and I grew up going there with my father to see his plays done there. You know? So I remember saying once, it’s like, oh, yeah. My father had a bunch of plays there, done there, and I’ve been there.

Orrin Evans [00:47:53]:
And then I I forgot who I was talking to, and the the conversation went for about 30 minutes about his oldest son who wrote a play for school. And I was just like, this is not the kind of system I wanna be having. So, like, let me just be quiet. And now I wait till I I know, okay, I can talk about this.

Nancy Norbeck [00:48:11]:
Yeah. I I think people struggle to relate because it seems so outside the norm that they have nothing, you know, that they pull out the the kids’ play just because it’s all they’ve got.

Orrin Evans [00:48:22]:
I know. You know?

Nancy Norbeck [00:48:23]:
And yet

Orrin Evans [00:48:24]:
Sometimes it’s like, just tell me for dinner last night. I’d rather have that conversation. So Tell me what you you know, I have I go to this local bar here and you’d be amazed at how many people don’t, I I don’t even say what I do. They’re just like, why is he home during the day? Like, I don’t say what I do because then I have that, you know, weird. They’ll play certain things on the jukebox. I’m like, yeah. I know him. Or one time, they’ll play certain things on jukebox, and I’ve brought that person in there.

Orrin Evans [00:48:54]:
Like, we’ve been there together, and they’ve talked to the person. But sometimes you don’t when especially especially with the music we play, you know, you don’t always know what everyone looks like. You know what I mean? So you might not even know this person or who or she is. So, I mean, I I love sometimes just, oddly enough, just being me.

Nancy Norbeck [00:49:17]:
Right.

Orrin Evans [00:49:17]:
And without being the artist sometimes or and everything that comes with it.

Nancy Norbeck [00:49:22]:
Sure. So I’m I’m curious how, if at all, your conception of yourself as an artist changed when you were nominated for a Grammy?

Orrin Evans [00:49:37]:
No. And and, honestly, that’s because, I I understand it’s all BS. You know, and and and and if if now granted, that record, and we just did another one that was released on Friday, is a great record, but there’s a bunch of great records out there. There’s a bunch of great records. I didn’t get nominated for a Grammy because it’s a great record. You know, I didn’t get nominated for a Grammy because there’s great songs on there. I didn’t get nominated for a Grammy because there’s great arranging on there. You know? I didn’t get nominated for a Grammy because the artwork looks great.

Orrin Evans [00:50:19]:
You know? None of those reasons are why I got nominated for a Grammy. Now I will say one of, not the top reasons, but one of the reasons we got nominated for a Grammy is dedication. It’s been a band now for 10 years. It’s been a and that’s a hard thing to do to have a big band and to put out we’ve put out 4 records now and we’re dedicated band. And I think that alone is like, okay. So that’s one part. I’m not saying that’s the first part. That’s 2, we worked along with Smoke Session Records.

Orrin Evans [00:50:55]:
We put the record out and put a lot of hard work into it. You can put a record out or anything, you know, well, speak record. You can put a record out, and it can be like the saying, a tree that fall in the forest and no one hears it. Mhmm. Because if you don’t promote it, you know, or if you don’t have a good team that’s doing radio ads, a good team that’s doing the publicity, making sure you’re doing as as many interviews as possible. If you’re not part of the Grammy board, you know, there there are you there’s parts of it’s just like the Emmys and the Oscars. You know? There’s some there’s some you you’re not gonna tell me that early Spike Lee stuff should have never been nominated. No.

Orrin Evans [00:51:35]:
It should have been. But he wasn’t the Spike Lee even though still he hasn’t, in my opinion, still got the duty he should. But still, the now that he’s older, he’s got a different team behind him, behind his work, a total different team behind this than she’s gotta have it 30, 40 years ago. So the Grammy, which I’m nomination, which I totally appreciate, and I look forward to walking on that stage and winning 1 and and grabbing it, but getting as close as we got, I knew how we got here. And it it wasn’t about Orrin Evans, the artist. That’s not why we got there. It was Orrin Evans, the team, and Orrin Evans, the business model. You know? It was every if there’s so many other pieces that that, you know, there was conversations literally, like, we wanna get this record nominated for a Grammy.

Orrin Evans [00:52:29]:
Okay. How do we do this? You know, it’s no different than I wanna drive to Georgia. Okay? You set your GPS and you follow those directions.

Nancy Norbeck [00:52:38]:
Mhmm.

Orrin Evans [00:52:39]:
You lost, but I’ll get you to Georgia. I’ll get you to Georgia. You know? Get finding the house and everything else is on you, but I can get this GPS. And that’s kinda what it was. It was like, how do you wanna get a Grammy? Okay. I mean, do you wanna get a Grammy? Let’s get the I and they got us to the door. You know? Now the the the next part is let’s try to get in the door and win it the next time. But I don’t think it, I honestly don’t you know, it didn’t change anything Mhmm.

Orrin Evans [00:53:07]:
For a with me. You know, it did definitely for the band that that I I run that got it changed the the camaraderie between all of us. It got us closer. And I think some some, you know, just made us feel stand up taller and feel better about what we’re doing because it’s hard. I mean, it’s a band. It’s it’s a 11 member band and that’s hard to pay. That’s hard to travel with. And to get that opportunity, really meant a lot.

Orrin Evans [00:53:36]:
You know? But, no. We’re still we’re we’re still down here understanding that it it it’s a business, and that’s how we got there.

Nancy Norbeck [00:53:44]:
Fair enough. Though I like that it brought you closer. I think that’s great.

Orrin Evans [00:53:49]:
Yep.

Nancy Norbeck [00:53:49]:
That’s a a nice side effect.

Orrin Evans [00:53:51]:
Exactly.

Nancy Norbeck [00:53:53]:
So I’m also curious to know how, if at all, traveling has changed you as an artist.

Orrin Evans [00:54:03]:
I don’t know if it’s changed me as as an artist because there’s a bunch of amazing artists that don’t even get, the opportunity to travel as much as I do. But it’s changed me as a human. And it’s really it’s it’s it’s just important. It’s I mean, even though we’re we’re in this time that we are right now, I mean, what just to know we’re in America. That’s number 1. And they call it the melting pot, which I hate. I hate that term. The melting pot means you put everything in it, it all becomes 1.

Orrin Evans [00:54:40]:
You know? I understand that it melts together, but I prefer a salad bowl. Tomato

Nancy Norbeck [00:54:44]:
That’s what I’ve heard, and I think that makes much more sense.

Orrin Evans [00:54:47]:
You know? It’s like everybody just stays what they are, you know, and and and and we all come together to make one great salad, you know, no matter what. So with that that being said, we’re in this this country with so many different people. And sometimes we don’t even we’re we’re not even familiar with the customs. You know? I and I remember I used to wanna take my mother to Europe so so bad. I didn’t get the opportunity to take her. I mean, she went when I I I assume she went before when I was little or before I was little. I believe so, and my father was in the service, so I know he went. But I I I knew that there were certain things I was gonna have to prepare my mother for that were, like, oh, no.

Orrin Evans [00:55:30]:
That’s not being rude. You know, like, when I first went to Europe and I went to I think I was in Italy and I went to pay for just a cup of coffee or something, And I went to pay, and and the woman pointed, and she had a tray on the table. Like, they don’t really you don’t put money in another person’s hand that much. You put it down. To me, if I put the money down because I’ve I’ve done it when I’m in the states. When I put it down, I feel like, oops. I feel like I’m disrespectful to the other person. Like, oh, I could’ve just put that in your hand.

Orrin Evans [00:55:59]:
But it’s just a way in which that that was that house that’s how they do it in Italy. So for me, everyone needs to travel because it would just shut down a lot of the misconceptions about people. You just see how different people do it. We we are so stuck on this is how you do it. Mhmm. I mean, even if it’s even if it’s pasta, whatever, this is how you make it. You know what I’m like? Well, hey. That’s why I love chopped, the TV show chopped.

Orrin Evans [00:56:29]:
I love it because you don’t know what you’re gonna get, and you have to make something beautiful out of it. You know, you don’t get a chance to say ill yuck. You have to make something beautiful out of it. And that’s, if anything, why I appreciate the fact that I travel, whether it’s from Detroit to Philly or Chicago to or or to to Italy or Spain. It’s just that I can see all the good parts of all of them put it together and make something beautiful. And and I think that is really what we need to do as a people, and we can’t do it without some frequent flyer miles or some stamps on your passport. We we have, like and it’s not as expensive as people think. You know? This is contrary to the beginning of our conversation.

Orrin Evans [00:57:18]:
This is this is one thing that we have to realize we have options. You know? We always have to go to Disney World. You know? You could spend that same amount of money and go to Portugal. Yeah. You know what I mean? So understanding those that if anything, all my little talk about options earlier, this is an area where options are good, and you should just explore them all.

Nancy Norbeck [00:57:43]:
I I agree. And I think that the world would be a better place if we all saw more of it, for sure.

Orrin Evans [00:57:48]:
I agree. I agree. Yeah. I

Nancy Norbeck [00:57:49]:
think a lot of us tend to just stay in the same place forever, and I don’t think that does us any kinda good.

Orrin Evans [00:57:55]:
Yep. I mean, I think the cities would be a better place if if people people went and saw more of the city. Yeah.

Nancy Norbeck [00:58:01]:
Yep. Yeah. So one other thing that I’ve been wondering for a while, which is, did did your uncle ever get to hear you play?

Orrin Evans [00:58:12]:
Yeah. He did. And and, he’s very, very quiet person. You know? And, I mean, I ended up playing the clarinet too before after when I and and I because when I went to that music school that I was recommended to go in in 7th grade, they weren’t prepared. They didn’t have a mute piano teacher. They’re like you know? So I picked up the clarinet, but when I would come home, I would bang on the piano all day. I have my little keyboard set up and make me, you know, and and what it’s funny, little things you remember, and I guess I had been playing too much. I had been playing all day.

Orrin Evans [00:58:53]:
You know, I used to make up little songs and sing. I came upstairs. My uncle, as I said, was very quiet. He just looked at me and says, think you need to practice that clarinet song. I was like, okay. He’s getting tired. He’s banging on the piano. But that was my uncle.

Orrin Evans [00:59:09]:
You know? I mean and and I mean, pretty much he would all and I I’m kind of I thought it was my dad, but now I’m thinking back a lot of that with my uncle too. I’m kinda like that as a parent with with my my boys and I try not to be. I try not to be, but I learned a lot from the silence, from the men around me. You know, I learned a lot. Like my father, I loved that he wasn’t the one to give you advice all the time. You know? I mean, I remember when I I just moved to New York, I’m like, what am I gonna do? And it whatever. If if I called my father and said, hey, can I borrow a $100? He would give me 50. Mhmm.

Orrin Evans [00:59:52]:
And say, yeah. And it has to be back by this time. You know? And then and it made me like, oh, shit. I’m gonna go get this other $50. Like, that was that was a lesson that I will never forget, you know? And and but he didn’t say much. He wouldn’t say, hey. You should do this. He would let me, which was totally different than my mom.

Orrin Evans [01:00:11]:
My mom would have an answer and advice before I finished talking. But those those men in my life, my uncle and them, they were very silent, but you if you listened, they were saying so much. You know? And and that that was that was my uncle. So I I never had a sit down conversation where he said, you know, man, you sounded really good. You know? Blah blah blah. I didn’t I didn’t get that. I I did get you need to check out the choice in women you’re you’re hanging out.

Nancy Norbeck [01:00:45]:
Well, that’s awesome. Thank you so much for talking with me today. This has been a really interesting conversation. I really appreciate it.

Orrin Evans [01:00:52]:
Thank you.

Nancy Norbeck [01:00:53]:
That’s our show for this week. I hope you’ve enjoyed this unusual opportunity to look at 3 siblings’ creative journeys. I’m so grateful to Orrin Evans for making the time to talk to me. And as always, I deeply appreciate all of you who listen. I’ve put all of Orrin’s links in the show notes, so do go check them out. There’s a lot to explore. Don’t forget to tell a friend about this episode and share your thoughts with us on Instagram at fycuriosity. Thanks so much.

Nancy Norbeck [01:01:21]:
You can find show notes, the 6 creative beliefs that are screwing you up, and more at fycuriositydot com. I’d also love for you to join the conversation on Instagram. You’ll find me at fycuriosity. Follow Your Curiosity is produced by me, Nancy Norbeck, with music by Joseph McDade. If you like Follow Your Curiosity, please subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. And don’t forget to tell your friends. It really helps me reach new listeners. See you next time.